Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:23 pm
hahahahaha...never thought of that!The M in the same configuration would have me staring at myself---not a pleasant thought.
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Discussions relating to the MacGregor line of trailerable sailboats
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X Owners, would you upgrade to an M?
Page 3 of 4
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:48 pm
BINGO~!!Billy wrote: . . . I don't look at it as upgrading or downgrading, but rather what fits.
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:58 pm
What did you expect? Here's why the X, even for a couple:Compromise wrote:There is a definite hint of X vs M here which I was hoping to avoid. Apparently it's unavoidable.
The X v-berth is easily extended on the starboard side and almost as easily extended on the port side.
The X dinette table and dinette seats, especially the aft one, are wider and you don't have to squeeze by a daggerboard trunk to use the forward one.
The X's centerboard is out of the way under the elevated dinette platform, folds up during a grounding, and can be used to balance the helm by shifting the center of lateral resistance aft.
There is much more storage beneath the X dinette seats, the aft one able to hold anywhere from a 48 qt (stock) to a 72 qt cooler (minor clearancing) or a 3-1/2 cubic foot Engel refrigerator, right across from the galley.
Because it is fixed, the X galley has much more storage and can accept the installation of an externally vented Wallas stove/heater.
The X's forward port seating is across from the dinette, not the head.
The X's aft galley seat, never obstructed by a sliding galley, is perfect for a well tied-down Ice Cube cooler for drinks, reducing the amount the food cooler under the dinette seat is opened.
The X's head is in the taller part of the cabin and easily accepts a 5 gallon porta-potty with more room above it. The X's head is centrally located between cabin and cockpit and easier to access. It also has its own sink.
Because of the roomier v-berth, the X's aft berth can be used as a veritable pick-up truck bed for cargo, keeping its weight low and in the most buoyant part of the boat, where it should be.
The X's companionway is lower and unobstructed by a bridge deck, and its ladder is shorter. This easier access can easily be traded off for a companionway-mounted air-conditioner you can still climb over.
The X's cockpit is larger and with much more foot room.
The X's aft lifelines easily accommodate pelican hooks, and the aft ends of the forward lifelines can be made detachable from the cockpit.
The X has a wide transom opening, aka "back porch" and is much easier to board over the transom. A Honda EU200 fits behind the helm seat and forward of the steering linkage.
The X's non-rotating mast more easily accommodates wind instruments and lines led aft.
The X's winches are located lower for easier use with lines led aft forward of them, not obstructing foot traffic along the cabin top sides.
The X has a backstay and doesn't need running backstays.
The X's lower-aspect sail plan and flatter bottom contribute less to heel.
The X's flatter bottom generates more lift.
The X and trailer require less tow vehicle.
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:22 pm
I hope Roger doesn’t read this thread because he may want to stop building the 
and go back to selling only the 
. I wonder if he thought he was building an inferior boat when he started the M project. LOL 
and go back to selling only the . I wonder if he thought he was building an inferior boat when he started the M project. LOL X owners would you upgrade to an M
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Mac Gregors are great boats.
I had a 26 D for 10 yrs and loved it. Some of my experiances with the D made me want the X:
I did'nt like the cabin layout. The small forward head, in specific. Once I thought I was going to have to get the jaws of life to get one of my beer drinking buddys out of it (I know the M's is bigger)
I hit an obstruction with the dagger board, that wiped out half a season getting a new one.
If I were primarily day sailing I would get the M, but I cruise with my boat 4-5 days at a time in the summer, the X lends itself to my needs much more, for the reasons Moe and Duane have explained so well.
I have installed numerous mods on my X, that would have been more dificult to do on the M. I understand Jack Sparrow has done some real cool mods on his M, some of it to the sliding galley, adding bulkheads, and storage, some of those mods may not have been nessesary on an X. Of course he probably has the faster blue hull!
I bought a 2yr old '02, with the money I saved I have realy modified the boat, 3 1/2 years later I still love the boat, And will keep it indefinetly.
My next boat will be a Gemini 105 cat...but my X is going to be out of the water and on the trailer so I can explore places I can't get to on the Gemeni.
Happy Motorsailing!! Ric
I had a 26 D for 10 yrs and loved it. Some of my experiances with the D made me want the X:
I did'nt like the cabin layout. The small forward head, in specific. Once I thought I was going to have to get the jaws of life to get one of my beer drinking buddys out of it
(I know the M's is bigger)I hit an obstruction with the dagger board, that wiped out half a season getting a new one.
If I were primarily day sailing I would get the M, but I cruise with my boat 4-5 days at a time in the summer, the X lends itself to my needs much more, for the reasons Moe and Duane have explained so well.
I have installed numerous mods on my X, that would have been more dificult to do on the M. I understand Jack Sparrow has done some real cool mods on his M, some of it to the sliding galley, adding bulkheads, and storage, some of those mods may not have been nessesary on an X. Of course he probably has the faster blue hull!
I bought a 2yr old '02, with the money I saved I have realy modified the boat, 3 1/2 years later I still love the boat, And will keep it indefinetly.
My next boat will be a Gemini 105 cat...but my X is going to be out of the water and on the trailer so I can explore places I can't get to on the Gemeni.
Happy Motorsailing!! Ric
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:08 pm
Moe as you have never been on a M, I suppose I could excuse you and understand your misinformation, but we have been thru this all before . . .Numerous times
MOe Most of your info/list is just plain untrue / BS!!! OR twisted and misleading.
The rest of what you post . . .you just assume and your assumptions are mostly wrong btw. Much of it you just make up and hope others will believe you. You might have been able to manipulate ( / BS) your Book knowledge into supporting your wants needs and desires in the past but no more. You see I have been sailing and using my boat for too long now, to be BSed into believing anymore untruths.
Just for starters:
I don't need a back stay never did. Old Technology
Many New Boat designs don't need them and that includes some of the Greatest Race boats and Cruisers out there in any dollar range.
My M doesnt need a back stay and I have sailed on some big water in some big winds on Lake Michigan.
Many world class sailors BTW call it a Inland Sea.
I have always had, all my lines leading back. Thru rope clutches btw.
Mostly I see X boats on this board are using cheap cam cleats not rope clutches.
BTW as for where to sleep on a Boat and after all your reading , I would have thought you would know this but, I have a larger and more accessible rear berth on my M Plain simple fact and in fact several here who own X's have complained how hard it is to get in and out of the rear berth on their boats. ( another test lets see moe scamper in and out of the X's rear berth)
I too can extend my V berth BTW. . .but why would I want to do that???
VERY few sailors sleep in the v berth! Basic Geometry says it's the wrong place to be! On the X its the very worst place to be or to sleep!! The boat is at its narrowest and your at the highest center of gravity( with a LOT of weight) in the boat !
Dagger-board is nowhere near the dinette on my M but your right it wont swing up during a grounding. Center boards seldom do that either again just another in the list of misleading claims by moe. Has anyone posted snapping a D-board yet on an M ? Has anyone posted the need to rebuild their center board due to abuse? ( Ahh that 2nd question about the center board would be a yes! )
You can mount a Wallas heater in and M and on just about any boat.
Well maybe not on a Capri 18 no room down there for one.
But why would anyone give up space on a small counter top in any boat to a heater that is seldom to ever and maybe never used. Of the over 1000 owners here on this board please raise your hand if you have a Wallus Heater installed. Now again if you use it at least a 1/2 a dozen times a year . HUmmm was it 1 guy or 2 ?
Storage there is Lot's of storage everywhere on the M and you can decide where it is and how to access it and change your mind evey day where you want it to be by moving the galley to where it suits you best today.
On The M BTW the ballast Vent is forward and has a built-in capture well around it, so there is no water ever getting into the boat from there on an M and you dont have to scurry around in a big hurry plugging it, just it plug it when you get the chance, proven fact it will be just fine on an M.....were there not some other problems and concerns with the position of the ballast vent on the X's
BTW Moe You sure have LOTS OF MAYBE'S LISTED.
Maybes that according to this board, and its swell over 1000 members that have never heard about any of them happening.
The Hull . . . BTW The Hull on the M is proven to be faster both , under sail and under power. So what was that about sails? Sizes? Cuts?
Oh yes and the Mast it self is bigger stronger and is all around better and it has a dedicated winch to raise it faster than an X can be done because I dont believe there was a winch dedicated for the use on an X was there?
Whats this about No Life line Pelicans hooks on an M ???
My M has had them since day one.
All Lines lead back are not hampered by the winches .
I would know I own a Mac and in fact own and have been sailing an M for 3 years now.
Access to deck is not hampered by the placement of the winches either BTW. I guess it could be ( another maybe could da might be ) but I have yet to hear anyone say they are.
MOE WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF????? None of it is true!
Show me an EU 2000 not 200btw that sits permanently and securely and is usable in space under the helm seat and it would not be a problem changing fuel lines at the motor. Tow vehicles for X and are all but the same as the M.
MOE with that big gennerator in the BackPorch can you still scamper up and thru. . .post a couple pictures of that too will you?
Transom sizes... Yes the X has a wider transom and Yes I would like mine to be wider and yes being an honest and forthright individual I would even like mine to be as wide as the X's but guess what Moe It doesn't t matter because if you could add the room of the two together and have it all on one boat 85% of the adults out there still couldn't get in and out with the use of that ladder Its still too narrow.
But hey why don't you post a picture of yourself scampering up out of the water and thru that slot on an X
It proven that the M has the additional edge of stability because of its permanent ballast .
M's btw will accept 90 hp outboards without need for transom work, which may or may not be done correctly there by causing transom failure as seen on this board! The Only Transom failure ever noted on this board with over how many 1000's of boats represented ! Yep it was on an X so when your sailing the seven seas would you rather have a transom you can depend on or one that ALMOST! has enough room to use to get into and out of your boat if your a 20 something College Gymnast! 'Lots of those floating around on this board aren't there?
But You know what? We need to start somewhere so lets start with a Video of You in the Water. . . and then lets show how easy it is for you to just scamper up out of the water and into an X thru that Back Porch Transom!!
After we watch you ake a fool of hyoursef trying to do that ....then I will disprove about 90%of the rest of your list . That , which I cannot disprove I will offset by strengths that the M has over the X to make up for the fact that. .. . . . the same size cooler wont fit in the starboard dinette seat on the M as on the X. But if you desire to move the galley just a little forward you could put the Biggest Coleman Ice Chest Ever Made on the port side of an M and still have total access to the galley sink, cupboard and storage area. We wont even talk about for now all the neat places to mount electronics and other stuff up high and out ofthe way on an M that you couldnt do on an X unless you just toggle bolted it thru the ceiling I wonder if anyone would consider those bolts as being a hinderance to deck access????
Ric K you have to assess X with M Not X with D and then dont assume the M is the same as the D because they are not even close .
#1. I dont think anyone has broken an M Daggar Board but they are available from the factory in 3 days and from an after market source as well. What were you doing that you broke your dagger board in half?
You really need to list what you did to your X that could not have been done to an M. The list isnt that long just jot it out.
BTW It must be something never before done to a sail boat before in the known history of man because just about everything has been done by Jack . . . on an M
Then while your at it . . why dont you make that list of all those things Jack so foolishly wasted hs time doing that he would not have had to do if it was an X .
Just a couple things for your to do list for tomorrow
MOe Most of your info/list is just plain untrue / BS!!! OR twisted and misleading.
The rest of what you post . . .you just assume and your assumptions are mostly wrong btw. Much of it you just make up and hope others will believe you. You might have been able to manipulate ( / BS) your Book knowledge into supporting your wants needs and desires in the past but no more. You see I have been sailing and using my boat for too long now, to be BSed into believing anymore untruths.
Just for starters:
I don't need a back stay never did. Old Technology
Many New Boat designs don't need them and that includes some of the Greatest Race boats and Cruisers out there in any dollar range.
My M doesnt need a back stay and I have sailed on some big water in some big winds on Lake Michigan.
Many world class sailors BTW call it a Inland Sea.
I have always had, all my lines leading back. Thru rope clutches btw.
Mostly I see X boats on this board are using cheap cam cleats not rope clutches.
BTW as for where to sleep on a Boat and after all your reading , I would have thought you would know this but, I have a larger and more accessible rear berth on my M Plain simple fact and in fact several here who own X's have complained how hard it is to get in and out of the rear berth on their boats. ( another test lets see moe scamper in and out of the X's rear berth)
I too can extend my V berth BTW. . .but why would I want to do that???
VERY few sailors sleep in the v berth! Basic Geometry says it's the wrong place to be! On the X its the very worst place to be or to sleep!! The boat is at its narrowest and your at the highest center of gravity( with a LOT of weight) in the boat !
Dagger-board is nowhere near the dinette on my M but your right it wont swing up during a grounding. Center boards seldom do that either again just another in the list of misleading claims by moe. Has anyone posted snapping a D-board yet on an M ? Has anyone posted the need to rebuild their center board due to abuse? ( Ahh that 2nd question about the center board would be a yes! )
You can mount a Wallas heater in and M and on just about any boat.
Well maybe not on a Capri 18 no room down there for one.
But why would anyone give up space on a small counter top in any boat to a heater that is seldom to ever and maybe never used. Of the over 1000 owners here on this board please raise your hand if you have a Wallus Heater installed. Now again if you use it at least a 1/2 a dozen times a year . HUmmm was it 1 guy or 2 ?
Storage there is Lot's of storage everywhere on the M and you can decide where it is and how to access it and change your mind evey day where you want it to be by moving the galley to where it suits you best today.
On The M BTW the ballast Vent is forward and has a built-in capture well around it, so there is no water ever getting into the boat from there on an M and you dont have to scurry around in a big hurry plugging it, just it plug it when you get the chance, proven fact it will be just fine on an M.....were there not some other problems and concerns with the position of the ballast vent on the X's
BTW Moe You sure have LOTS OF MAYBE'S LISTED.
Maybes that according to this board, and its swell over 1000 members that have never heard about any of them happening.
The Hull . . . BTW The Hull on the M is proven to be faster both , under sail and under power. So what was that about sails? Sizes? Cuts?
Oh yes and the Mast it self is bigger stronger and is all around better and it has a dedicated winch to raise it faster than an X can be done because I dont believe there was a winch dedicated for the use on an X was there?
Whats this about No Life line Pelicans hooks on an M ???
My M has had them since day one.
All Lines lead back are not hampered by the winches .
I would know I own a Mac and in fact own and have been sailing an M for 3 years now.
Access to deck is not hampered by the placement of the winches either BTW. I guess it could be ( another maybe could da might be ) but I have yet to hear anyone say they are.
MOE WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF????? None of it is true!
Show me an EU 2000 not 200btw that sits permanently and securely and is usable in space under the helm seat and it would not be a problem changing fuel lines at the motor. Tow vehicles for X and are all but the same as the M.
MOE with that big gennerator in the BackPorch
can you still scamper up and thru. . .post a couple pictures of that too will you?Transom sizes... Yes the X has a wider transom and Yes I would like mine to be wider and yes being an honest and forthright individual I would even like mine to be as wide as the X's but guess what Moe It doesn't t matter because if you could add the room of the two together and have it all on one boat 85% of the adults out there still couldn't get in and out with the use of that ladder Its still too narrow.
But hey why don't you post a picture of yourself scampering up out of the water and thru that slot on an X
It proven that the M has the additional edge of stability because of its permanent ballast .
M's btw will accept 90 hp outboards without need for transom work, which may or may not be done correctly there by causing transom failure as seen on this board! The Only Transom failure ever noted on this board with over how many 1000's of boats represented ! Yep it was on an X so when your sailing the seven seas would you rather have a transom you can depend on or one that ALMOST! has enough room to use to get into and out of your boat if your a 20 something College Gymnast! 'Lots of those floating around on this board aren't there?
But You know what? We need to start somewhere so lets start with a Video of You in the Water. . . and then lets show how easy it is for you to just scamper up out of the water and into an X thru that Back Porch Transom!!
After we watch you ake a fool of hyoursef trying to do that ....then I will disprove about 90%of the rest of your list . That , which I cannot disprove I will offset by strengths that the M has over the X to make up for the fact that. .. . . . the same size cooler wont fit in the starboard dinette seat on the M as on the X. But if you desire to move the galley just a little forward you could put the Biggest Coleman Ice Chest Ever Made on the port side of an M and still have total access to the galley sink, cupboard and storage area. We wont even talk about for now all the neat places to mount electronics and other stuff up high and out ofthe way on an M that you couldnt do on an X unless you just toggle bolted it thru the ceiling
I wonder if anyone would consider those bolts as being a hinderance to deck access????Ric K you have to assess X with M Not X with D and then dont assume the M is the same as the D because they are not even close .
#1. I dont think anyone has broken an M Daggar Board but they are available from the factory in 3 days and from an after market source as well. What were you doing that you broke your dagger board in half?
You really need to list what you did to your X that could not have been done to an M. The list isnt that long just jot it out.
BTW It must be something never before done to a sail boat before in the known history of man because just about everything has been done by Jack . . . on an M
Then while your at it . . why dont you make that list of all those things Jack so foolishly wasted hs time doing that he would not have had to do if it was an X .
Just a couple things for your to do list for tomorrow
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:25 am
hehehehee i wondered how long it would be before this broke into a x versus m slanging match.
those of us who own the superior x,attribute the sales of the m to rodgers marketing genius(that was a joke dive )
those of us who own the superior x,attribute the sales of the m to rodgers marketing genius(that was a joke dive
)Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:55 am
Happy Jack Sparrow
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:52 am
Actually, I have and took some of the pictures here.Divecoz wrote:Moe as you have never been on a M...
You seldom raise the jib, so I can see why. Several M owners here have added them to deal with a sagging forestay.Divecoz wrote:I don't need a back stay never did...
Yes, but they had to be led outside the winches, and as Duane pointed out in an earlier thread, cover the best area for walking forward.Divecoz wrote:I have always had, all my lines leading back. Thru rope clutches btw.
Anyone visiting the Mods pages will see that not the case.Divecoz wrote:Mostly I see X boats on this board are using cheap cam cleats not rope clutches.
More accessible, yes. Larger, no.Divecoz wrote:I have a larger and more accessible rear berth on my M
These days, I don't scamper anywhere, but I never had a problem getting in the aft berth since the ladder folds up.Divecoz wrote:( another test lets see moe scamper in and out of the X's rear berth)
It's the main cabin in many boats, some of which have no aft berth.Divecoz wrote:VERY few sailors sleep in the v berth!
If you're going to restate Terry's post, at least give him credit for it. When underway, when it really counts, do you want to have to move cargo out of the high CG forward v-berth to the aft berth?Divecoz wrote:Basic Geometry says it's the wrong place to be! On the X its the very worst place to be or to sleep!! The boat is at its narrowest and your at the highest center of gravity( with a LOT of weight) in the boat !
Anyone who's used the forward dinette seat on the M knows better.Divecoz wrote:Dagger-board is nowhere near the dinette on my M...
Not snapping, but certainly damaging. Leon was one (original board).Divecoz wrote:but your right it wont swing up during a grounding. Center boards seldom do that either again just another in the list of misleading claims by moe. Has anyone posted snapping a D-board yet on an M ?
The Wallas stove-heater takes the place of an Origo stove. Because it has a "chimney" it can't be installed in a sliding galley unless that is fixed.Divecoz wrote:You can mount a Wallas heater in and M and on just about any boat...why would anyone give up space on a small counter top in any boat to a heater...
So do X's built in '98-'99 and later.Divecoz wrote:On The M BTW the ballast Vent is forward and has a built-in capture well around it
Okay. The tanks are forward of the generator, so switching the hose is no problem. There is back porch aft of the generator, which is easy to step over.Divecoz wrote:Show me an EU 2000 not 200btw that sits permanently and securely and is usable in space under the helm seat and it would not be a problem changing fuel lines at the motor... with that big gennerator in the BackPorch
X owners are laughing at that one. It really calls your credibility into question. There is PLENTY of room for even the largest person to board over the transom on an X, and most X owners have done so.Divecoz wrote:85% of the adults out there still couldn't get in and out with the use of that ladder Its still too narrow.
When unballasted.Divecoz wrote:It proven that the M has the additional edge of stability because of its permanent ballast .
Yes, Mark Prouty's, where the modification actually caused the damage.Divecoz wrote:The Only Transom failure ever noted on this board with over how many 1000's of boats represented ! Yep it was on an X...
If my posts bother you this much, don't read them.
--
Moe
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:53 am
Yea I can't belive it took 3 pages to become a bloodbath!
They are both friggin good boats for the price. they are just different.
Most of Moe's M negatives are actually positive in my book (some are just wrong).
They are differnt boats. Lets leave it at that.
Again, it could also be what you are used to, which one will be 'better' for you. It could be what you see FIRST too.
When we got serious about buying, we saw the 04 M before we saw a used X. It was no contest. To us the M was hands down a winner. Several years later..still think the same!
Of course, virtually all X owners feel the same, no doubt.
ALL the boats are MORE than modifiable enough to put ANYTHING within reason on it and make it your own!
Then you can get into the more minor debate - early vs late Ms!! That battle is far less bloody for sure!
They are both friggin good boats for the price. they are just different.
Most of Moe's M negatives are actually positive in my book (some are just wrong).
They are differnt boats. Lets leave it at that.
Again, it could also be what you are used to, which one will be 'better' for you. It could be what you see FIRST too.
When we got serious about buying, we saw the 04 M before we saw a used X. It was no contest. To us the M was hands down a winner. Several years later..still think the same!
Of course, virtually all X owners feel the same, no doubt.
ALL the boats are MORE than modifiable enough to put ANYTHING within reason on it and make it your own!
Then you can get into the more minor debate - early vs late Ms!! That battle is far less bloody for sure!
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:59 am
Bloodbath??
Wait until the Macgregor 26 V comes out next month....
(TIC)
Wait until the Macgregor 26 V comes out next month....
(TIC)
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:04 am
All together folks - ready? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s singing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s singing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s singing, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
===============================
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s crying, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s praying, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s singing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s singing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone’s singing, Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya
O Lord, kumbaya
===============================
R King wrote:"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out."
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:17 am
Your right Kevin as are others here concerning tirades.
I still own and sail mine so it must be the best boat for me .
When it stops being the best boat, I too will then sell it for a new and different best boat hahahaaha
I still own and sail mine so it must be the best boat for me .
When it stops being the best boat, I too will then sell it for a new and different best boat hahahaaha
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:51 am
Fact:
All businesses change/modify their product mix to remain competitive, increase sales and improve customer service. This includes automotive industry,boating industry & appliance industry, all of them.
Fact:
Roger MacGregor & company did their due diligence and compiled a multitude of market research to determine a means of building a better product in order to comply with first fact.
Fact:
MacGregor 26X production ceased in the year 2002
Fact:
New MacGregregor 26M production began with model year 2003
Fact:
MacGregor 26M was further modified for 2005 model year.
Fact:
MacGregor factory posts on their website a list of what they deem to be the improvements of the M over the X See Link:
http://www.macgregor26.com/comparison_w ... nd_26m.htm
Fact:
Factory home page lists links to positive objective reviews by various magazines.
These are simply facts folks, not up for debate or arguement.
Subjective opinions by some posters are up for debate and arguement.
Sometimes those subjective opinions hit someones nerve and a retaliatory post is made. This is when the thread turns hostile.
Moe fired the first unsubstantiated biased post that hit a nerve. Strangely enough he sold his Mac X and bought a Capri. Obviuosly the X was not suitable for him either yet here he is rallying/cheering on about the X and how it is superior to the M.... I do not comprehend this and feel it only destroys the credibility of his post.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, we buy the boat and make post purchase justification for it and recognize all the positive attributes and dismiss any negatives, it is human nature.
I am biased towards the '03 M model because it is what I got. Had I been more financially creative sooner I would have purchased an X as it was all that was available and I made the decision to purchase a Mac in the year 2000, it just took a bit of time to get things in financial order. Had I taken longer I would have had more choice. With more choice I would make some observations, one being the newer models are by their very nature superior, that is why the factory produced them. One point does tend to stick out though - the popularity of the X dinette, it was first removed in the '03-'04 models then re-instated in the later models, obviously market research dictated this change and buyers insisted on it.
OK so they put it back, but I don't like it, it was better in the X, worked better in the overall design, but appears to be an after thoight in the newer M's, they should have left well enough alone, the '03-'04 layout was fine, just my take on it.
As for other differences like the size of the aft berth, it is a mathematical fact that the M aft berth is larger than the X, not a matter of opinion, just a fact. As an aside, both my wife and I can enter or exit the aft berth simultaneously due to the open design on both sides whereas in the X one has to wait their turn while closest person to the entrance exits first, what would happen in an emergency when someone panics. The mast is taller, bigger, rotates and carries more sail - facts again. There are performance improvements that are purely factual not up for debate or arguement, that is why they were implemented by the factory in the first place, this includes the dagger board being an improvement and the traveller.
I do not subscribe to the statement that "it just would not work for me/us" being applied to any model, bottom line is that if that was all that was available you would make it work, I would have made the X work for me one year earlier but I got lucky and got the '03 M.
As for the "back porch" it was removed for good reasons, mainly to provide more useable space elsewhere, that is why the M aft berth and entire interior is larger.
Oh yea, speaking of space, I am a fairly large man and I have no problem entering through the transom on the M but I only use that entry on the hard because It is too high to climb over the sides, the small 50hp Honda does not impede my entry. Once on the water (at my slip) I never ever, ever enter through the transom, I have that cool ladder from BWY that makes side entry the logical choice and have since aquired a cool extension for it so that I can get in on the side from a dinghy. I have not attached it yet but I do have it, just have to invent a quick pin attachement so I can remove it easily when at the dock. It would probably work on the hard too.
The cockpit on the M is definately smaller, I have compared my M to an X side by side and sat in both cockpits and had dinner with my freinds in their X dinette. The X cockpit is clearly larger and if that is a desired feature it should be seriously considered. I cannot reach my long legs across to the opposite seat on the X but I can easily do this on my M thereby having a brace during an extreme heel. There are benefits for the small cockpit but I do find it confining when I have to move around the pedestal.
In summary, all models of the Mac are great in some way shape or form that is why they sell so well. We just modify them to our own personal needs. But I still maintain that Jack Sparow and Bob Currie have a huge impact on which models are better by design.
All businesses change/modify their product mix to remain competitive, increase sales and improve customer service. This includes automotive industry,boating industry & appliance industry, all of them.
Fact:
Roger MacGregor & company did their due diligence and compiled a multitude of market research to determine a means of building a better product in order to comply with first fact.
Fact:
MacGregor 26X production ceased in the year 2002
Fact:
New MacGregregor 26M production began with model year 2003
Fact:
MacGregor 26M was further modified for 2005 model year.
Fact:
MacGregor factory posts on their website a list of what they deem to be the improvements of the M over the X See Link:
http://www.macgregor26.com/comparison_w ... nd_26m.htm
Fact:
Factory home page lists links to positive objective reviews by various magazines.
These are simply facts folks, not up for debate or arguement.
Subjective opinions by some posters are up for debate and arguement.
Sometimes those subjective opinions hit someones nerve and a retaliatory post is made. This is when the thread turns hostile.
Moe fired the first unsubstantiated biased post that hit a nerve. Strangely enough he sold his Mac X and bought a Capri. Obviuosly the X was not suitable for him either yet here he is rallying/cheering on about the X and how it is superior to the M.... I do not comprehend this and feel it only destroys the credibility of his post.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, we buy the boat and make post purchase justification for it and recognize all the positive attributes and dismiss any negatives, it is human nature.
I am biased towards the '03 M model because it is what I got. Had I been more financially creative sooner I would have purchased an X as it was all that was available and I made the decision to purchase a Mac in the year 2000, it just took a bit of time to get things in financial order. Had I taken longer I would have had more choice. With more choice I would make some observations, one being the newer models are by their very nature superior, that is why the factory produced them. One point does tend to stick out though - the popularity of the X dinette, it was first removed in the '03-'04 models then re-instated in the later models, obviously market research dictated this change and buyers insisted on it.
OK so they put it back, but I don't like it, it was better in the X, worked better in the overall design, but appears to be an after thoight in the newer M's, they should have left well enough alone, the '03-'04 layout was fine, just my take on it.
As for other differences like the size of the aft berth, it is a mathematical fact that the M aft berth is larger than the X, not a matter of opinion, just a fact. As an aside, both my wife and I can enter or exit the aft berth simultaneously due to the open design on both sides whereas in the X one has to wait their turn while closest person to the entrance exits first, what would happen in an emergency when someone panics. The mast is taller, bigger, rotates and carries more sail - facts again. There are performance improvements that are purely factual not up for debate or arguement, that is why they were implemented by the factory in the first place, this includes the dagger board being an improvement and the traveller.
I do not subscribe to the statement that "it just would not work for me/us" being applied to any model, bottom line is that if that was all that was available you would make it work, I would have made the X work for me one year earlier but I got lucky and got the '03 M.
As for the "back porch" it was removed for good reasons, mainly to provide more useable space elsewhere, that is why the M aft berth and entire interior is larger.
Oh yea, speaking of space, I am a fairly large man and I have no problem entering through the transom on the M but I only use that entry on the hard because It is too high to climb over the sides, the small 50hp Honda does not impede my entry. Once on the water (at my slip) I never ever, ever enter through the transom, I have that cool ladder from BWY that makes side entry the logical choice and have since aquired a cool extension for it so that I can get in on the side from a dinghy. I have not attached it yet but I do have it, just have to invent a quick pin attachement so I can remove it easily when at the dock. It would probably work on the hard too.
The cockpit on the M is definately smaller, I have compared my M to an X side by side and sat in both cockpits and had dinner with my freinds in their X dinette. The X cockpit is clearly larger and if that is a desired feature it should be seriously considered. I cannot reach my long legs across to the opposite seat on the X but I can easily do this on my M thereby having a brace during an extreme heel. There are benefits for the small cockpit but I do find it confining when I have to move around the pedestal.
In summary, all models of the Mac are great in some way shape or form that is why they sell so well. We just modify them to our own personal needs. But I still maintain that Jack Sparow and Bob Currie have a huge impact on which models are better by design.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:11 am
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