MacGregorSailors.com

What you guys are missing is that in using the charger you now have a device that is connected to shore AC current and to your battery which is DC and the battery is probably connected to the outboard which is in the water.

4. No “Green Wire” or poor-quality connection between DC negative and AC safety ground.

Without a good connection between DC negative and AC safety ground, stray AC current may enter the DC ground system. When this happens, AC current may enter the water around a boat and injure or kill swimmers near the boat. The green wire is the safety ground wire that connects the DC negative ground block to the AC safety ground bus. The purpose of this wire is to provide a lowest-resistance path to ground for any stray AC current that finds its way onto the DC ground system. There have been cases of AC current entering the water around a boat through the engine shaft and killing swimmers near the boat. For more on how to prevent this, see our West Advisor on ELCI/GFCI Electrical Shock

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/T ... Conditions

Read the 3 links I posted.

You have the hot and ground side on both the AC and DC circuits and on the AC the neutral white also. You can't assume that the wiring at the marina is correct and something isn't reversed in their wiring which is the reason for the polarity checker. If their wiring gets reversed then you can get AC into the ground side of your DC circuit on the boat and then into the water.



http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/T ... Conditions

If your boat is in the water please do it right. If you took the charger out of the equation and only took AC on board with a cord that went only to outlets and couldn't get to the DC circuits in the boat (the charger) then things wouldn't be quite as bad.

On the inverter issue we have used...



http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-EL2200-Elit ... 210&sr=8-2

...the pure sine wave inverter above with good luck....



.... running chargers and such. It isn't huge but has worked for us.

... the

81venture wrote:Our boat is setup for boondocking, so staying 12v is best anyway....just thought a single A/C outlet would be a nice luxury where it could be employed.

I'm reluctant to go on the record on a public forum suggesting things that I know are not code compliant at best, and dangerous or deadly at worst, so I'll just say that yes, a duplex receptacle connected to shore power is very nice to have. I use mine for the mini-vac (120V, ~20 on sale at Home Depot some years ago) for quick cleaning of the little bit of carpet in there, and all that white plastic that seems to collect dirt. and it also works to pull water from below the floor boards, at least when it used to leak rain water.

The danger in reverse polarity mostly comes from branch circuits, where only the ungrounded (hot) conductor is disconnected on overload, or intentionally by manually flipping the single-pole breaker to 'off'. If the polarity is reversed, you're disconnecting the grounded (neutral) conductor, and the ungrounded (hot) is still connected to the circuit. Also, a ground-fault (hot-to-ground) will not trip the breaker, since the single-pole branch circuit breaker is now on the neutral side instead of the hot side. A solid ground fault should trip the 30A breaker, either in the boat panel or the pedestal panel, but they're not always of low enough impedance to instantly trip the breaker.

Also, it's not truly an isolated ground plane, as the water is holding the boat, and the equipment ground is also bonded to the boat's electrical system, so an inadvertent ground-fault in supply wiring inside the boat can pass leakage current into the water (a fresh water problem, mainly), making the risk of electric shock drowning very real if anyone is in the water near the boat. Those risks are minimized, of course, with just a receptacle right next to the main breaker. Unfortunately, those self-contained two-pole main breakers with reverse polarity indication only seem to come in 30A and 50A sizes, and the 30A is what the PO installed in my boat. In an interior single-gang box, for which is was not made. Using sheetrock screws through the faceplate into the hull liner.

This one: https://www.bluesea.com/products/8077/AC_Main_30A

But if I add a branch circuit panel, like this one http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems- ... B000K2IKQE, I'll have 15A protection on up to three circuits, though I'm really fine with just one. Or this one http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems- ... B0002UEOF0 and add a single-pole breaker, but the cost would come out about the same. Having three circuits would allow me to plug the charger into a separate circuit, which is nice because I don't always want it on, especially when it's making electrical noise which interferes with radio.

Just some stuff for you to chew on.

Tomfoolery wrote: Just some stuff for you to chew on.

thanks...is really all I need. I will hold no members responsible if I fry anyone

Right now all I have done is added a fancy plug.

sumner, don't worry I WILL be reading the links you sent in GREAT DETAIL TONIGHT....just don't have time now... I was working in the shop when I posted all this, and again is just in the brainstorming mood. As far as the inverter you posted I already have the same style (different company, and not Marine) installed in the boat. 400W max....enough for light A/C things like charging the cordless drill etc. So we are on the same page as far as what an invertor is.... But so far we have never actually used it...it's just there because like so many of my "upgrades" I just had it lying around.

I think what I will do for now, is simply order the dual batt charger, skip the A/C plug altogether. And then just use the connection at the R/V park and the Yard to power my DC system and charge batteries....which is two batteries with a dual batt switch....both are strictly house batteries since my motor is pull start. One Batt has a dedicated solar charger, the other charges when the motor is running (I ordered and installed tohatsu's 6 amp charge system)

Again the odds of me ever running into or plugging into a Marina Shore Power Plug are nill anyway...they charge $$ for that anyway

This will work for now I think...and then later maybe upgrade more....

So for now plans to plug the boat in ON THE WATER have been ixneighed for safety...I'll just set it up as a land system...

Appreciate all the info....now I gotta order the charger

So, realistically, what do you do if you hook up to shore power and the reverse polarity light comes on? Accept it or not take the power? [Excuse me, the polarity at the dock is switched, do you mind if I re-wire your marina? ]
Seems it my be easy to just have a relay behind the panel top switch the polarity of the leads in that case - activated the same way the light would be activated. If the relay fails, still have a red light.

RobertB wrote:So, realistically, what do you do if you hook up to shore power and the reverse polarity light comes on? Accept it or not take the power? [Excuse me, the polarity at the dock is switched, do you mind if I re-wire your marina? ]
Seems it my be easy to just have a relay behind the panel top switch the polarity of the leads in that case - activated the same way the light would be activated. If the relay fails, still have a red light.

On my Hunter, I had a reverse polarity pigtail. Male/Female and it would reverse or "fix" a plug with reversed polarity. I can't remember if I ever used it. Maybe once.

81venture wrote:....I think what I will do for now, is simply order the dual batt charger, skip the A/C plug altogether. And then just use the connection at the R/V park and the Yard to power my DC system and charge batteries....which is two batteries with a dual batt switch....both are strictly house batteries since my motor is pull start. One Batt has a dedicated solar charger, the other charges when the motor is running (I ordered and installed tohatsu's 6 amp charge system)...

Sounds like a good plan and as long as you are just going to use it like you said why not use the plug you installed?

Also sounds like you have 2 batteries but use and charge them separately. If that is the case why not have them connected in parallel all of the time? They will last longer and use and charge better in that mode. The two that are in the Kera Jane have always run in that mode even with the electric start (can still start the outboard with a rope, but never had too).

They are getting old so now I'm going to replace them with two 6 volt Trojans in series for more capacity and hopefully longer life than the 12 volt deep cycle batteries that have been in the boat,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Sumner wrote:
Sounds like a good plan and as long as you are just going to use it like you said why not use the plug you installed?

Also sounds like you have 2 batteries but use and charge them separately. If that is the case why not have them connected in parallel all of the time? They will last longer and use and charge better in that mode. The two that are in the Kera Jane have always run in that mode even with the electric start (can still start the outboard with a rope, but never had too).

Sumner

I will use that plug....I'll prob just hide a 110 v Female behind the wood trim going to the batt charger which comer with a standard 110 male. vs cutting it and wiring it to my cosmetic "shore power" connector for now...I like that the shore power plug looks cool. but in reality for now it will simply be cosmetic. (It was a nice plug...had to use it) So in essence I will be faking it for the moment.

Yes I have two batteries... I come from the power boat world initially, so it's always been the same...1 starting, 1 trolling or house, and a Battery switch in the middle....now I have the sailboat I wired it that wire mostly from habit...thinking I could run on one, while the other soaked solar all day....it's a learning curve for me bro...for sure i guess its the old "if one dies I can always switch to the other" thinking. the solar panel was free, from my hoarding...I get 17.5 volts at high noon so to speak...but it is really just a "tending" panel, nothing like what you are using.

Our goal on the boat is like 2 day trips...tops! And practice for maybe one day a big boat. I got 2 more years till the spawn is in college, but now looks like we will have the in-laws to deal with ummm how to say, till death (theirs) do us part...and mom is stage 4/5 dementia....so big boats gonna be awhile now. However, a weekender is what I am building. And have I ever mentioned I have a LOT of extra stuff?

Sumner, your advice is always the most welcome....I am sure I speak for all. I think we'd all fight for a chance to apprentice with you for a year if we could

RobertB wrote:So, realistically, what do you do if you hook up to shore power and the reverse polarity light comes on? Accept it or not take the power? [Excuse me, the polarity at the dock is switched, do you mind if I re-wire your marina? ]

I wonder this as well....all this talk about wiring the boat "right" because the marina might be "wrong"?? they have a standard too no?

Hey Catigale....

I just broke 20004 views with my BS

I get a T-shirt right?



Cheers mates!
Dave

81venture wrote:they have a standard too no?

Yes. NEC Article 555 Marinas and Boatyards, which is in addition to, a modification of, and/or supersedes other articles of the NEC. Basically, the whole NEC applies, with the specifics of Art. 555.

Sumner was not kidding!

http://www.qualitymarineservices.net/el ... _list.html


Wow!

Just checked the wiring diagram on my battery charger, the Promariner Protech 1230i Plus. This shows a charger case ground connection to the battery negative (and the boat ground plane if we had one). Not sure if it can handle reverse polarity on the AC. I called Promariner tech support and they stated that an AC reverse polarity situation would not introduce power into the DC ground.

I still haven't ordered the Battery Charger yet....

Headed to the lake last Saturday and we got a mile from the house I heard noise from trailer....stopped to gas up the van and checked and the drivers side left rear tire was hot and smelled. So I turned around and another mile home the wheel was smoking. Total Bearing failure. So the weekend, and the $ for the charger, was spent replacing bearings on all 4 wheels. Something I should've done a long time ago.

Meanwhile, picked up this for free yesterday






The man wants to sell the trailer....didn't care about the boat. I contacted him 20 days ago and offered to hoist the boat off and he would have better luck selling the trailer alone. He declined. However 20 days later and no bites on the trailer he changed his tune. I offered to hoist it off, sell the trailer for him in exchange for the boat.

So far I found inside a brand new VHF radio, a set of fishing telescoping outriggers that when I looked them up online go for about $140 each, 3 very weird looking but brand new anchors. The outdrive is bad, but there is a SS prop to sell, and a working 5.7 v8 motor to sell.

I've already hoisted it off the trailer....there is also a lot of teak to scavenge and a a nice set of folding teak louvered doors.

Cheers
Dave

Having that hoist in your "marina" has come in handy. You must be locally known as the boat salvage master.

I kind of doubt that is the name his wife calls him as a result of all this

RobertB wrote:I kind of doubt that is the name his wife calls him as a result of all this

Hint, click on one of my pics, and you'll see the username for photobucket