gas tanks

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Taking the boat to the gas station is just one more pain I can do without. It is far easier to take the tanks alone and it lets me prep and load everything days ahead of time. Not to mention that I can take them to the farther away cheaper station and fill them when I fill the monster 40 gallon tank on the Suburban.

When I head out with the boat I don't want any stops between home and the launch. Setting up the boat takes enough time as it is and kids get impatient.

The 4 tanks slip out in seconds and are the right size to be carried by hand, not to small, not to big. 6 gallon gas tanks, just like 5 gallon water jugs are the right compromise between size and and a pain in the back. I'd like to see someone move a full 12 gallon tank into the boat, its never going to happen. They may still be red portable plastic but the 12 gallon tanks are there to stay. Who wants holes in their seats? I'd have to unsnap and move the seat cushions and other stuff to fill up. I can fill mine without moving a thing.

It's not just about saving money at shoreside facilities. There most certainly are times up here when the fuel is not convienient to a dock. I can pull up to the nearest dock and walk up to any station. Often at a marina we are staying at it is a pain to motor over to the fuel dock and then back to the rent a slip to get ready to leave the next morning. I can easily take a tank or two by hand over to the fuel dock. I can even anchor out and take in the tanks by dinghy if need be.

Twice in Canada this summer the attendents insisted that any red portable tank HAD to be removed to be filled. No choice, size didn't matter. (Others were also much more picky about who was on board during filling. They wanted everyone out from down below.)

Having the four 6 gallon tanks gives me the same amount of fuel and a whole lot more versitility.

This is the same reason I use 5 gallon hard water tanks to feed my pressure water system rather than a single big bladder tank. Most of the non-marina parks docks around here do not have water on the dock. It is always available in the park on shore. Same is true for most of the island parks with no docks at all. Being able to take in a jug and fill it via the dinghy has been great on a number of occasions.

Since we do our best to avoid the marina scene portability is far more important to us. When we're out for a week or more I don't want to always have to plan marina stops.

[Chip Hindes]

Agree with Duane on this one. IMO the advantages of portable tanks are worth the slight inconvenience of having to fill extra tanks.

My solution was slightly different, though. Since I already had two Tempo 9Gas (which perversely only hold a little over 8 gallons) I got two Tempo Ultra 3s. If you turn the 9Gas endwise, the Ultra 3 fits easily with additional room for oil, propane, etcetera. Turned endwise, the 9Gas hangs out of the locker a few inches, but it's under the captain's seat and not a problem. No modifications to the locker openings, but the tank does rest on the sharp lower edge, so I have to come up with a way to pad it; maybe a simple piece of tygon slit and glued in place.

The Ultra 3 is perfect for double duty as a dinghy tank.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

We do also have a 5th tank on board, an ultra 3. It's main purpose is for the dinghy motor. It straps into the tank location in our high pressure floor dinghy. When not there it fits great in the lower footwell under the seat in the cockpit.

Our dinghy motor is a 2 stroke so this tank is mixed with oil, but can be run through our 2 stroke Tohatsu 50 if need be. This gives me a total of 30 gallons of fuel on board.

I also switched all the fittings on the tanks to be Tohatsu fittings. I put a Tohatsu end on the Yamaha fuel line for the dinghy. They Yamaha type fitting is a real pain, the Tohatsu ones are great. This gives me access to all 30 gallons with either motor.

My dinghy motor on it's bracket on the transom can also push the mac at 6 knots. It will run for a long time on 30 gallons of fuel. I can add oil to the 6 gallon tanks for it as needed.

[Frank C]

. . . I have to come up with a way to pad it; maybe a simple piece of tygon slit and glued in place.

Is that like a piece of garden hose, slit lengthwise?

[kmclemore]

Slightly 'on topic', I saw someone using one of these "Gas Caddy" tanks to fill their boat and it worked a treat!

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Slightly 'on topic', I saw someone using one of these "Gas Caddy" tanks to fill their boat and it worked a treat!

The question is how do you take one of those to a gas station to fill it? Even if you have a pickup truck, it would be a bear to try to lift 170# of gasoline (plus the weight of the tank/pump) off of a vehicle by yourself.

[kmclemore]

Slightly 'on topic', I saw someone using one of these "Gas Caddy" tanks to fill their boat and it worked a treat!

The question is how do you take one of those to a gas station to fill it? Even if you have a pickup truck, it would be a bear to try to lift 170# of gasoline (plus the weight of the tank/pump) off of a vehicle by yourself.

It has wheels... he just had a couple of small boards that he used to ramp it into his mini-van.

[Chip Hindes]

Is that like a piece of garden hose, slit lengthwise?

Yeah, but Tygon (should be capitalized, I guess) is clear. WM has stuff especially made to finish cut openings, but I think it's too hard to provide the benefit I'm looking for.

[richandlori]

News Flash......

The famed TEMPO 6 Gal fuel tank WILL NOT FIT in a 26M! I was about to get 4-Tempo 6-gal tanks and decided to go out and take a measurement of the fuel locker on my 26M. Here are the demensions: Height 10" to 11" (10" at the lip of the locker and 11" inside the locker, length 25", and depth 19". Given that the tempo fuel tanks have a measurement of 11"x11"x21", the tempo tank would stick out 2" into the foot room. It is interesting to note that the tempo 12gal tanks measurements are height 10.75, depth 18", and width 24". It looks like Roger designed the 26M for the tempo 12gal fuel tank!

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... ductId=174

Oh well, I won't be eaisly able to carry a 12gal tank, but it looks like I don't have a choice, besides some sort of custom tank.

Rich

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The Value 6 tanks don't fit in the X locker either. You have to modify the locker to get them in and then they stick out about 2" on an X as well. You can see this quite clearly in my pictures.

The same is true of a Utra 6, put in end wise and it will stick out about 2" as well. It's angled face does let it fit in without removing the front lip but because of it's flatter profile you can't get two side by side sticking out like the Value 6. You can put a 3 next to it like Chip does.

I think even the DuraTank 6's stick out a bit and it's not near as easy to get to their fuel connections and filler caps. Plus they cost more.

The good thing is an X has more footroom to give up. The seats on an M are quite a bit closer together than an X.

The M locker was really made for a 12. The lift up hinged seat makes it easy to get to the fuel connections and the filler cap.

[mgg4]

On the subject of filling fixed tanks from a "Gas Caddy", I'd check with your marina to see if they allow this type of operation. Some marinas, like the one I keep Offline in doesn't allow any boat's fuel tanks to be filled up from portable tanks. They say this is to prevent fuel spills and related fires, but it could also be a way to get you to pull up to the fuel docks.

If they catch someone fueling their boat from portable tanks (other than removable outboard tanks), they ask that person to find a new home for their boat. No amnesty. No second chances.

So, I'd check with your marina.

--Mark

[Kevin]

Ok, now I'm going to sound a bit dumb here, but I have 4 six gallon tanks in the fuel lockers of the Dwen along with a few quarts of 2-cycle oil between them and some dock lines and a mop head.

I don't have the brand of the tanks. Just asked the dealer for two 6 gallon tanks and later 2 more just the same.



Maybe somebody can recognize the shape from this picture. I'll see about some thing better tomorrow.

[waternwaves]

MGG,
On the issue or wheeled refueling tanks..
This is not legal advice, merely a review of former litigation outcomes and current marina policies.

(MAny counties use the International Fire Code, and NFPA for determination of types of hazardous activities, many adopt the entire codes as well as some doing jsut sections of the codes )

More likely the insurance risk is driving the marina operator to post rules prohibiting tank to tank personal fuel transfer... (especially private marinas), where such rules make the most sense, for example in boat houses, where pressurized water is not available etc.

This is not a new problem tho.

Marinas and airports have had this problem for years.

However, you can check in the few cases (Westlaw) like this that have made it through the courts, Sans accidents, The owners who implemented written procedures and hung placards on their tanks, and documented what they are doing and how, and had the appropriate safety equipment in place, grounding straps, fire extinguishers present, spill containment... etc... have all won in court (albeit at a high cost). and if I recall correctly one marina quit carrying fuel because of such a court case. (The defendent had better procedures than the marina) It would probably be difficult to defend in court that a trained adult operating by procedure would be more dangerous than the 15 yr. old kid on the line dock, that at more and more marinas, is not even allowed to put the nozzle in your tank, reserving that liability to you anyway.

I have heard from an insurance investigator that the insurance industry wants to limit portable tank sizes to lessen the risk, feeling that any tank larger than 10 gallons or so isnt really portable.

The environmental laws deal with fines applicable for spills, The Fire codes adopted by a given muni are specific and detailed, the insurance fears are more nebulous, and often initiate blanket responses to problems that do not exist.

In no case does any state allow you to resell gasoline without a license.

But the truth of the matter is economics. Fleets of jetskis have made the wheeled tanks the fuel station de jure. And for a marina to try to prove in court that they are unsafe (an expensive proposition), or remove someone and have it stand up in court would also be expensive. The insurance industry would be caught on both sides of this issue.

Now, they can still fine you if you spill, or violate an adopted fire code..... If a particular activity is not prohibited by municipal , state or federal ordinance or code...... well then that is what case law is for.


Now they might also have a rule not to use their fuel dock, you might have to find another safe place.

I know of several owners and marina operators that have taken care of the issue to try and control the activity eg. not in slips. not at night, not in boat houses, but those rules genrally are against all transfers, even for the dinghy, ,... etc. and I am sure that such rules make good sense, that is why there are lights at the fuel docks, and no permanent moorage immediatley adjacant to fuel docks, do not use cell phone signs..

But maybe I am just too litigous..... but if the gas dock was closed,
If I had all the gear to do it safely, procedures hanging from the tank, fire extinguishng equipment, spill mitigation etc.. and could roll the tank safely to the boat and ground it.......well.......
methinks the marina would have to spend a very large fortune on attorneys... and they would still lose.

If someone could be more specific of any marina that claims this, and what county or parish and state it is in, I would like to check into this a bit more. Especially with their insureres. There are relative few underwriters in that business that will sell a policy to a marina. This issue bears further checking.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The Value 6 tanks don't fit in the X locker either. You have to modify the locker to get them in and then they stick out about 2" on an X as well. You can see this quite clearly in my pictures.

The same is true of a Utra 6, put in end wise and it will stick out about 2" as well. It's angled face does let it fit in without removing the front lip but because of it's flatter profile you can't get two side by side sticking out like the Value 6. You can put a 3 next to it like Chip does.

I'm not sure if the lockers are different on my 2000 or you just didn't try hard enough, but I have completely unmodified fuel lockers and my Ultra-6's do fit in there. It is rather a tight fit and the fuel cap will touch the top of the locker as it slides in, but I have been doing this the whole time I've had my X boat.

I can fit in two of the ultra6's and two of the ultra3's all at the same time.

Btw, if you let the ultra6 swell up in the sun with the vent closed, then it won't fit in. That's happened to me once or twice and I just opened the vent and let the tank bleed out the extra pressure. Then it fits again.

[mgg4]

Maybe somebody can recognize the shape from this picture.

Kevin,

Since I know where you got your boat (same place I got mine), and because he only sells one kind of tanks, I pretty sure you have "System Matched Dura-Tanks". I'm not sure, but I seem to remember these were manufactured (or at least sold) under the OMC brand.

--Mark