MacGregorSailors.com

I won't say "I told you so" but remember, you heard it HERE first...

Brent, For several years now, I have watched this argument come up and up and up.......et cetera

having just finished multiple weeks on my 26x/2600, (had to cut the trip short due to money and other considerations) Through both sides of Vacouver Island, Dixon Passage etc.. on a trip where I originally intended to visit the queen charlottes in this fall, I have a little more insight on on single handing a 26 in rough weather these last couple of weeks, (did have a couple of very moderate pacific storms move through)

150 Genies should stay in the bag if you are playing out in the fall, just adds too much weather helm, that your steering gear is going to be stressed with, my boat still had (had is the operative word here) original gear, sized I guess for the 50 Nissan(43 hp prop or something such), and it broke before the winds made it much past 20 kts. I know that a "real" sailor would have trimmed the mast, and rigging to lessen that helm, but lets be realistic here, changing boat gear in 6 -10 ft seas, single handed, on a mac 30 or more miles from shore is not something most of us are going to clamor to do. I recommend the new steering gear will be sized at least for the likes of a 150 hp outboard....(lets say 1000 lb ft torque, that should miminixe the breakage in the console. Since most of you are going to put on too much engine on the transom anyway, make sure your transom reinforcements extend well past the rudders. (those older style rudders are really nice, (especially after the wheel steering or one rudder breaks) So integrate those really large mounts for the rudders into your engine reinforcement. I have to tell you, I did not enjoy breaking steering twice, (Tho by having it break in the pedestal my rudder brackets went through just fine), nor tearing sails, knocking antennas off the mast,

Anyway, getting back to the offshore capabilities of the 26, or any boat for that matter, They all feel pretty damn small when the waves crashing over the bow also clear the stern, and the mac has a little disconcerting sway to it as the mast goes through those gyrations, mostly because I prefer the radar mount on the lower shroud bolt.

But as to the question of sea worthiness......it is a well thought out boat, and I almost recommend that you go through each of those systems and design in a week link, a preferred failure point so to speak on everything, for example, when the steering box broke, it was relatively simple to throw up one rudder and lash a dinghy paddle half to the upturned blade., enough to get some control back, try that in a 36 beneteau

The ballast tank is fairly bullet proof, until the fill valve fouls and you cant get it closed, but that is more of an inconvenience than a hazard, But if you truly want a stronger boat... I think the 26M is a little tougher, solely on mast size, thickness, transom design, companionway design etc..

I am effecting repairs to mine right now..... and working on that perfect transom reinforcement... (hmmmm is there a market for that out there???) and increasing rigging diameters and mounting plates wehre possible, but the truth is, you cant add much more strength to most of that....the steel to fiberglass connection is always the weakest point.... I have sailed many years and only once seen a shroud or stay sever, never have I seen a nicopress sleeve fail, but I have seen several stanchions, chainplates, staymounts, peters, and cleats tear through, and the mac seems just as likely for those kinds of failures.

another thing I would like to point out......
macs dont generally sail very fast..
and I have learned that 4 kts without straining gear is much easier than fighting that awful heavy weather helm, trying to eke out that last half a knot. and having to stop and fix broken parts... Since I sail mostly single handed, taint no one else minding the shop, while I try to macgyver some sort of kluge to hold things together.

Also, if you want to play in the northwest or Pacific coastal from october on, get the Storm Jib, the Staysail, and maybe even a trysail., much cheaper than replacing that sexy mylar 150 genny.. and put a second set of pulleys on the mast for the alternate jib and staysail,

Realisticly, I dont think you can average anywhere near that 6 kt speed in a mac,

And for all of you other nutcases than want to bruise yourself and your equipment with me up in the queen charlottes and prince williiam sound next march......... (via the ofshore foggy side of Vancouver island)

be very careful.....

smooth winds and clear skies to all of you

but it really is a coastal boat.....maybe not protected waters only, but definitely coastal......

Anyway...... 3 macs, buy one in the US, sail both coasts over 2 years (winter in belize or costa rica....) finish in alaska, sell it, fly to NZ/Aus pic up the second boat ..... (staying coastal), spend 9 months down under (Tho the stretch from from NZ to Aus is still a huge task), circumnavigate australia, sell that boat, fly to the med, pic up your third boat, winter in tthe mediteranean, then canal or coastal coastal Europe to the baltics to finish up at the end of summer, There you have sailed many of the neat places in the world, avoided bad weather, pirates, typhoons etc, and probably spent less than 100K and stayed withing the performance capabilities of the mac

After spending a few nights in those pacific storms... sleep is a luxury.... but it was a fantastic couple of weeks

Brent,
People have told you exactly what you need to know....I have read almost every thread and if you still can't get an answer(and there are plenty, exact answers to choose from)?.....PLEASE, buy a Mac, any model and go....I used analogies due to your obvious ignorance of common sense.....I am off this thread.....good luck to you.

Frank C wrote:* You've never yet even seen a Mac 26X?

Correct, I've never seen a MacGregor 26 in person.

* You need to buy it in Indiana and then get it the West Coast.

Not exactly, I need to sail the boat near where I live, Indiana. I assume I would buy one at the nearest dealer.

* This dictates a trailerable as your vessel of choice for circumnavigating?

I'm not sure what, "this" refers to. I could sail a boat at Lake Monroe, Patoka, Brookville, Kentucky Lake, or the Great Lakes. These bodies of water are only connected by the highway and that necessitates ramp launchable. If I wanted to sail on the coast the boat would have to get there the same way.

* You've saved a cat from 50' up, but your brother's rock climbing is too risky?

I think you are a bit confused; I've never mentioned a cat. Free climbing to me is about the same risk as singlehanding without a tether.

* But you don't think ocean crossing is any more risky than camping in a 30' trailer?

No, I've never mentioned risk in connection with a travel trailer. I assume you must be confusing the word, "comfort" with the word, "risk". What I actually said was that a 30' travel trailer would be more comfortable than a MacGregor 26.

Nobody I've ever read of was ready to shove off again after a "one day layover."

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. The one day layovers refered to the Islands in between Hawaii and the Phillipines. For example, one day layover at Wake, one day at Midway, one day at Guam. Realistically, I think the layover at Hawaii and the Phillipines would be longer.

brent wrote: . . . Which would you rather have, an honest discussion about real merits and flaws or a hasty generalization based on extreme and unrelated analogies?

Sure, that sounds reasonable. You aren't implying that you've not rec'd valid feedback, are you?

No, I was only referring to the hamburger and Porsche analogies. Of course, I could be wrong, maybe a sailboat really is like a hamburger.

Frank & Meg wrote:I won't say "I told you so" but remember, you heard it HERE first...

Actually, Frank, that wasn't the first time that posters resorted to personal attacks rather than having a reasonable discussion; but, thanks for thinking of me anyway. I have to say that the postings here have been considerably better than the other forums I tried.

waternwaves wrote:Brent, For several years now, I have watched this argument come up and up and up.......et cetera

I don't see any reason to have a big argument over this topic. You obviously don't feel that a mac 26 is up to an extended ocean cruise and you have direct experience. Understood. For me, this topic is hypothetical. I could for example:

1. See a MacGregor 26M in person and decide not to buy one.
2. Buy one, sail it on the Great Lakes and decide it isn't suited for big water.
3. Try it for coastal sailing but decide it isn't suited to rough weather.
4. Try coastal sailing and make an attempt to Hawaii but turn around at the decision point.
5. Actually sail to Hawaii and back.

I think 1 is unlikely since there aren't many ramp launchable boats and the 26 seems to sail pretty good. 2 and 3 are much more likely. I am in no way committed to number 5. I guess what some people are failing to see is that I could have a great time with the Mac 26 even if I never take it 100 miles from shore. My life doesn't revolve around the idea of sailing to Hawaii; I just need a good sailboat. And, with a nice outboard I could go cruising with my brother who has a 1962 vintage 20' Crestliner inboard/outboard.

For me the most important thing is that the boat is easy to launch and rig. I also want a boat that sails nicely because I'll probably go daysailing more often than anything. With some onboard facilities I could spend several days onboard or use the boat for vacation motoring on the Great Lakes or maybe even coastal cruising. Recreation and vacation.

Actually, Frank, that wasn't the first time that posters resorted to personal attacks

Interesting that you would consider calling attention to your previous activities a "personal attack". It certainly wasn't meant as such.

I have to say that the postings here have been considerably better than the other forums I tried.

Then show your respect for the answers and the folks who gave them by ending your questioning of their motivations and judgement. You've ticked off people on two boards now largely because you don't seem to get the answer you want. From what I've seen in my Mac surfing, you've gotten the best answers from the best folks to ask. Leave it at that.

brent wrote:When I was ten years old my kite got stuck in the top of a 50' oak tree. So, I climbed the tree and got my kite down. It never occured to me that there was anything peculiar about doing that.

I haven't climbed any trees lately but I have worked on a plank set on ladderjacks at the top of my 22' extension ladders. . . .

My brother fell and broke his arm while rock climbing. This isn't something I've ever done and I don't see any reason to take the risk; I'm not really a thrill seeker.

Cat . . . kite . . . rock-climbing, whatever, they're within reach of emergency services.

It's not terribly clear where risk begins. However, risk is definitely accessible at any saltwater shore. After 24 hours, rescue services and hospitals are at least 36 hours distant. As mentioned above, choose whatever floats yer fancy, but sounds as if the predominant assessment is that ocean-crossing in a Macgregor is slightly daft.

You really should contact Frank Mighetto for the final word on this topic, as he is clearly the world authority on blue-water cruising in a Macgregor . . . best wishes, fair winds, more power to ya both!

A typo? What year is your X? Mine is a 2000...is yours?
Ron

Come on guys. People are letting their emotions get the best of them here. When you give advice to someone it is not a personal attack if they don't agree with you. Everyone has a different danger tollerance. Brent asked for advice. He does not have to take it. People here gave him a lot to evaluate and he now has to make his own decision. We don't want this board to be like that other one. Lets continue to tollerate everyone and stop with the attacks.

RE: As I said earler, this boat was not designed for offshore. However, neither were a lot of boats that have made long ocean passages. Some people love taking it to extreems. And then we all know that just 2 miles off shore you enter the extreem storm zone where there is never any type of weather other than the perfect storm.

I respond:

Be aware that I am posting in a calculated way. Everything I say and do regarding the Mac26x should be networking our clan above and beyond the usual place the uninitiated pretend we should reside - which is protected waters.

This vessel was from the start designed for offshore use. Look at your brochures. Go to the factory and ask as I have, "what kind of a boat is the Mac26x". The answer I got without prompting was that she is an unqualifited ocean sailboat. Roger Macgregor understates the boats capabilities when you compare her to small boats that have circumnavigated and have been deamed worthy of that task. Such as Catalina 27s if not Folkboat 25s or Flicka 20s. This solid flotation thing is a big deal. The water ballast tank is bigtime structure making the boats very strong and the upto 17 layers of matting at stresspoints means the design gets reviewed in offshore sailing magazines.

in http://www.practical-sailor.com/sample/boatreview2.html is the line

The 26 was designed for typical small cruising boat useinland waters and limited coastal sailing. It is too small to be a long-distance passagemaker. It wont hold enough gear and supplies, and the long-term, day-after-day motion of a small, light sailboat can be tough on the crew.

There are thousands of these boats out there, and many have been caught in, and survived, some really extreme weather conditions, on both lakes and oceans. Like most small cruising sailboats, the 26 can handle high winds and nasty seas, but risk and discomfort levels increase dramatically in severe weather. To maximize fun and safety, most of our owners wisely keep a watchful eye on the weather and try to avoid severe conditions.

These comments on seaworthiness are attributed to Roger MacGregor. They are reasonable and yet portray much possiblities for our craft. For example, in an ocean race, gear and supplies are kept to a minimum to keep the boat light. Comfort is not a concern. Crew are looking for speed and lets face it this boat does double digits in normal wind. Planing is a wonderful thing.

Be aware that I have yet to post on trailor sailer. There are many Frank "clones" now. The boat just is exceeding expectations. If a Potter 18 can sail to Hawaii, so can a Mac26x. This kind of thing should be beyond debate at this point in time.

If I remember the flyer mailed to me, I will be at the Blue Water Yachts open house tomorrow during the day and at the winterizing seminar. The dog watch (4 to 6 pm) is the best time to catch me. For the good of the order, consider attending. Say hi. Tell my wife I am nuts. She knows enough about this craft to enjoy sailing with me. This is the true test of a great design, getting the wife to sail with you.

Several people have gone over Niagara Falls in barrells and survived. A guy recently survived going over the Falls without a barrel. That doesn't mean that it's a safe or sane thing for a human to attempt, because many more, both with and without barrels, on purpose and accidentally, have died going over Niagara Falls. Some of the bodies have never been found.

It is the same with taking a Mac to Hawaii.

Unless you're just doing it to jerk people's chains, if you have to ask this discussion board whether or not a Mac is capable of making such a trip, you don't know enough about sailing or sailboats to try it, never mind in which particular boat.

Has any particular brand of barrel worked better than others? Wood? Steel? Plastic? Anyone on this site have any good barrel-riding stories?

P.S. I think Rolf is on his way to Hawaii from California right now.

Brent, buddy, c'mon... I did not say you were arguing, I said " I have watched this argument come up and up and up..." furthermore I use the word argument in the meaning " a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating the truth or falsehood of something"( American Heritage dictionary, 2nd ed. ref 2a.) And I specifically identified it as a coastal boat. now.

I also think that many mods can greatly improve the features of the boat, and I have noticed the ride gets much smoother the heavier I load her.

and as far as open ocean.....experience... I am of the mind that when the boat is more than 45 degrees tilted in any direction it is going to be a long long ride.(and I have done that) Though I have sailed out of sight of land, and been in seas 15 ft plus with wind waves another 6 -8, it is not someplace any small boat is particularly comfortable.

But lest you miss my point here.

I think that a mac to hawaii in the right time of year is possible, with proper planning, good luck, better electronics, and a modicum of macgyver repair skills to handle what you will encounter. In fact I wont try and rate it on a scale of difficulty... but most open ocean sailing is endless tedium interspersed with intervals of sheer terror. Kind of like a bad marriage from what I have heard...... (please I am sorry about that one. hehehe, thank god I haven't experienced that....)

And as far as rough sailing,,,

I will give this one insight.. I feel one hull of a lot safer more than 30 miles out in 45 kt winds... with the drogue out, than I did off of Vancouver island in 20 to 30 kt winds and almost no visibility less than 5 miles from the rocks...

It could be done reasonably safely. but if you are going to do it single handed, talk to some of the people that single their macs frequently and get the deck hardware and lines really thought out as to where you want them, and what they are going to interfere with. carrying a life raft can, a dinghy, epirb, fuel bladders, spare mast, extra sail, etc makes for a very crowded mac, and make sure you have enough solar or wind power to run that damn auto pilot...., course you are carrying a spare along with 2 spare rudders

most people think I am nuts for taking up mine to the queen charlottes and prince william sound in the fall, so maybe I am too far off the deep end. but it can be one hull of an adventure. and in the weeks I was out.... the mac is a very comforting vessel to spend time in by oneself.

maybe it is just personality type, ....

another note.... coastal sailing is much busier than open ocean.. especially single handed... its a good boat......and it can be sailed very safely... and 4 hours of motoring can get you out of the eye of even a typical pacific summer storm, but satelite weather would be a must.


If I was only interested in going to hawaii...... but I prefer the washington, BC and alaska heavenly waters...

Personally I considered your questions reasonable, especially since you havent had the luxury of spending time on one in rough seas. hopelfully you have a high tolerance to small boat rolling motion on swells.

Good luck

I just wanted to mention that I called the Macgregor factory and asked them about some of the things that have been said about their boats. I also asked them about using the 26 for bluewater. The conversation was interesting.