MacGregorSailors.com

Like someone else already posted, the similarities far outnumber the differences. I choose an for two reasons:

#1, I found a very good deal on one. It needed some minor work, but was half the price of any of the 's I saw.
#2, I spend most of my time in VERY shallow water and felt that the centerboard would be a safer bet than a daggerboard.

That said, I'm over 6 feet tall and the head seems cramped to me, so I probably would not like the smaller one in an .

esc wrote:That said, I'm over 6 feet tall and the head seems cramped to me, so I probably would not like the smaller one in an .

I can see your point. I am 194cm myself.

But at the same time, why is the head so important? If sailing longer distances in challenging weather, no one will be able to rest in the head. And the captain's bed will always be under the cockpit, I guess? I think of the head more as a childrens resting room in calm conditions, and the M-size will be more than suitable for that.

But sure, if an excellent M26X with a matching price tag comes my way, I will sure hold on to it. Even if it turns out to be slower on the water, both for sail and engine.

I guess no one share the same preferences, really.

MacTommy wrote: But at the same time, why is the head so important? If sailing longer distances in challenging weather, no one will be able to rest in the head.

The bigger head in the would be more important to us because it's size (for most people anyway) and the fact it's enclosed allows you to mod in a shower easily. That's very important to the admiral (and you gotta keep the admiral happy).

Regards,
Henry

MacTommy wrote:Starspun's link made me curious. I would say that the unfoldable ladder in the M's appears to be a result of experienced lack of cockpit floor strength in the X's. What could otherwise have caused the decision about making the ladder unfoldable?

I think that moving the head forward reduced the interior bracing in the rear of the M. The solid ladder makes up for that. I have noticed no cockpit floor weakness in an X. Good luck in your search.

~Rich

Henry I believe you will find that Very Very Few, Showers have been installed.. It takes no less than a lot more water carried on board.. and ya might want it heated a tad.... and then there is the cost and the labor of Pumps and the Drain etc etc and added humidity.. Hummm ? For some with the head aft you make the rear berth at best... a PITA to access.. That is at it turned out , was the entire reason ....for a previous member advocating V Berth Sleeping arrangement and the potential shower modification ( one he never installed!!) He did install a toilet paper holder , with IIRC 2 face tape??? I use the shower at our marina or when I am OUT.. I have a 5 gallon solar bag I use for hot showers..
The Cockpit on The M is for sure smaller than the X.. But even on the X its not palatial.. Depending on your numbers on board and your height? You may find the little bit smaller Cockpit allows you to support yourself when heeling .. But if you Need to sleep in the cockpit? The X's additional length will be greatly appreciated.. It was argued here for a couple years by a very few , that when Rogers sales dropped off and he came to realize he couldn't sell the M he would be changing back.. That Never Happened..
It comes down to.......Money.. How Much Are You Willing To Spend..Apples to Apples you will not buy an M as cheaply as you will buy an X..
Very Very Few.. X's have the New Big Prop Motors.. Most will have a 10 to 15 year old 2 stroke, small prop , motor with? Only GOD knows how many hours on it.
That could cost you? In or around $4000 to Over $7000 to replace in a month, a year, 2 years?? If That Boat isn't absolutely pristine ? Chances are the motor wasn't well cared for either..
Dagger Board -V- Swing Keel for shallow water sailing.. Sounds good? I dont know that its true.. I sailed/powered for 6 1/2 weeks everyday in around and through some Very Skinny water.. I grounded Once.. under sail.. and a couple times under power.. THEN I realized ( Thank You Highlander!) You very seldom need all that DB to be down.. and you'll go Faster..
M Cabin Ladder........ There is a VERY Neat Mod for a swing away ladder now.. I have a fellow willing to make the pieces out of SS Brass Bronze or a Plastic ( I forget the name it starts with Mal??)

andarlite wrote:The bigger head in the would be more important to us because it's size (for most people anyway) and the fact it's enclosed allows you to mod in a shower easily. That's very important to the admiral (and you gotta keep the admiral happy).

Regards,
Henry

andarlite wrote:The bigger head in the would be more important to us because it's size (for most people anyway) and the fact it's enclosed allows you to mod in a shower easily.

Hehe, sorry, my fault. I mixed up "the head" with the bed in the bow.

Pls excuse me, english is not my first language.

That could be a HUGE mistake!

I still like my 1 gal. pressure hand pump for showers.
I bought a 1 gal. pump sprayer and added 6 ft. and a plastic sink sprayer to it , total cost under $25.
I heat up a pint of water on stove and warm the water in tank and take a shower aft sitting on a 12 beer cooler with seat up.
Works great for me and Teresa.
The Sunshowers are gravity feed and not pratical on a moving boat and has no pressure.
Mine stores in the X head under the sink.
I also use a quart size heavy duty with a 2 inch wide screw on cap and drill lots of 1/32 holes in it and use it as a quick shower, I bought a solid cap when not in use.
Dave

Divecoz wrote:Henry I believe you will find that Very Very Few, Showers have been installed.. It takes no less than a lot more water carried on board.. and ya might want it heated a tad.... and then there is the cost and the labor of Pumps and the Drain etc etc and added humidity.. Hummm ? For some with the head aft you make the rear berth at best... a PITA to access.. That is at it turned out , was the entire reason ....for a previous member advocating V Berth Sleeping arrangement and the potential shower modification ( one he never installed!!) He did install a toilet paper holder , with IIRC 2 face tape??? I use the shower at our marina or when I am OUT.. I have a 5 gallon solar bag I use for hot showers..
The Cockpit on The M is for sure smaller than the X.. But even on the X its not palatial.. Depending on your numbers on board and your height? You may find the little bit smaller Cockpit allows you to support yourself when heeling .. But if you Need to sleep in the cockpit? The X's additional length will be greatly appreciated.. It was argued here for a couple years by a very few , that when Rogers sales dropped off and he came to realize he couldn't sell the M he would be changing back.. That Never Happened..
It comes down to.......Money.. How Much Are You Willing To Spend..Apples to Apples you will not buy an M as cheaply as you will buy an X..
Very Very Few.. X's have the New Big Prop Motors.. Most will have a 10 to 15 year old 2 stroke, small prop , motor with? Only GOD knows how many hours on it.
That could cost you? In or around $4000 to Over $7000 to replace in a month, a year, 2 years?? If That Boat isn't absolutely pristine ? Chances are the motor wasn't well cared for either..
Dagger Board -V- Swing Keel for shallow water sailing.. Sounds good? I dont know that its true.. I sailed/powered for 6 1/2 weeks everyday in around and through some Very Skinny water.. I grounded Once.. under sail.. and a couple times under power.. THEN I realized ( Thank You Highlander!) You very seldom need all that DB to be down.. and you'll go Faster..
M Cabin Ladder........ There is a VERY Neat Mod for a swing away ladder now.. I have a fellow willing to make the pieces out of SS Brass Bronze or a Plastic ( I forget the name it starts with Mal??)

andarlite wrote:The bigger head in the would be more important to us because it's size (for most people anyway) and the fact it's enclosed allows you to mod in a shower easily. That's very important to the admiral (and you gotta keep the admiral happy).

Regards,
Henry

MacTommy wrote:
Hehe, sorry, my fault. I mixed up "the head" with the bed in the bow.

Pls excuse me, english is not my first language.

I thought it was a little strange when you said you thought of the head as a children resting room in calm conditions.

Regards,
Henry

I was thinking of this shower mod .... seems like a good one and not too difficult to do:

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1214

and perhaps this shower:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/250964847824?ssP ... 1423.l2649

Regards,
Henry

DaveB wrote:I still like my 1 gal. pressure hand pump for showers.
I bought a 1 gal. pump sprayer and added 6 ft. and a plastic sink sprayer to it , total cost under $25.
I heat up a pint of water on stove and warm the water in tank and take a shower aft sitting on a 12 beer cooler with seat up.
Works great for me and Teresa.
The Sunshowers are gravity feed and not pratical on a moving boat and has no pressure.
Mine stores in the X head under the sink.
I also use a quart size heavy duty with a 2 inch wide screw on cap and drill lots of 1/32 holes in it and use it as a quick shower, I bought a solid cap when not in use.
Dave

Divecoz wrote:Henry I believe you will find that Very Very Few, Showers have been installed.. It takes no less than a lot more water carried on board.. and ya might want it heated a tad.... and then there is the cost and the labor of Pumps and the Drain etc etc and added humidity.. Hummm ? For some with the head aft you make the rear berth at best... a PITA to access.. That is at it turned out , was the entire reason ....for a previous member advocating V Berth Sleeping arrangement and the potential shower modification ( one he never installed!!) He did install a toilet paper holder , with IIRC 2 face tape??? I use the shower at our marina or when I am OUT.. I have a 5 gallon solar bag I use for hot showers..
The Cockpit on The M is for sure smaller than the X.. But even on the X its not palatial.. Depending on your numbers on board and your height? You may find the little bit smaller Cockpit allows you to support yourself when heeling .. But if you Need to sleep in the cockpit? The X's additional length will be greatly appreciated.. It was argued here for a couple years by a very few , that when Rogers sales dropped off and he came to realize he couldn't sell the M he would be changing back.. That Never Happened..
It comes down to.......Money.. How Much Are You Willing To Spend..Apples to Apples you will not buy an M as cheaply as you will buy an X..
Very Very Few.. X's have the New Big Prop Motors.. Most will have a 10 to 15 year old 2 stroke, small prop , motor with? Only GOD knows how many hours on it.
That could cost you? In or around $4000 to Over $7000 to replace in a month, a year, 2 years?? If That Boat isn't absolutely pristine ? Chances are the motor wasn't well cared for either..
Dagger Board -V- Swing Keel for shallow water sailing.. Sounds good? I dont know that its true.. I sailed/powered for 6 1/2 weeks everyday in around and through some Very Skinny water.. I grounded Once.. under sail.. and a couple times under power.. THEN I realized ( Thank You Highlander!) You very seldom need all that DB to be down.. and you'll go Faster..
M Cabin Ladder........ There is a VERY Neat Mod for a swing away ladder now.. I have a fellow willing to make the pieces out of SS Brass Bronze or a Plastic ( I forget the name it starts with Mal??)

andarlite wrote:....and perhaps this shower:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/250964847824?ssP ... 1423.l2649

Actually, I have a Zodi shower and it works pretty well. But I didn't go with the one you're showing... too much equipment for me. I just bought the can & sprayer model (not with the burner) and we heat it up on the stove. Works great.

I have never seen anyone use the head (hehe) in their as a shower. If intended, I agree the is more suitable than the .

Even if I end up buying a , I would not shower in it. Too much hassle and installing. Better to use a Solar Shower outdoors, I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PePTfpVsCQM

If I need to take a shower when not in a harbour, no problem to shower on deck. Feel free to peek. I guess no one will see anything they have not seen smaller versions of before, as we say in Norway.

If I am in a guest harbour, with lots of neighbours... Well, harbours have showers, don't they? I don't see the problem.

Pls let me know if my language leads to more misunderstandings.

For us the Solar shower works well... We lay in on the deck in front of the mast with a bungee for that ....just in case.. A Halyard lifts it about 10 feet in the air and we / I have only ever showered when we're anchored..We have a thermometer strip that is on the outside and when it hits about 100 degrees I just wrap a towel around the bag and she's nice and warm ..Ahhhh we shower in swim suits But as I said .. I find very very few who have turned the X head into a shower..

MacTommy wrote:If I need to take a shower when not in a harbour, no problem to shower on deck. Feel free to peek. I guess no one will see anything they have not seen smaller versions of before, as we say in Norway.

....

Pls let me know if my language leads to more misunderstandings.

Your language is great... and very funny!

I had a 30 gallon bladder installed in the bow. The water line runs both to the sink, and the shower head that is hidden in the transome. We are approaching season number eight, and have yet to use the shower head for showering. We use it to wash out the cockpit. Since we don't actually fill the bladder very often, the system sits unused. If we did use the shower for personal use, I guess it would be very early in the morning, or at night. We would not want to violate any decency laws, or worse, end up on You Tube!

Ray