26m sailing performance

[Boblee]

Im a fair sailor and have had my M model for almost 2 years and sailed it quite a bit. My average speed real world is around 4-5 knots at 15 degrees heel in nice conditions where its not too bumpy

When we bought the the sole dealer a very accomplished sailor was of the opinion that these boats heeling anymore than 15 deg was a negative, sort of proved that a few times but maybe I wasn't correct and besides don't have a lot of time to ponder over 15 deg as am usually being yelled at because everything falls off the table bout then so tend to keep it there anyway.

[mastreb]

Im a fair sailor and have had my M model for almost 2 years and sailed it quite a bit. My average speed real world is around 4-5 knots at 15 degrees heel in nice conditions where its not too bumpy

When we bought the the sole dealer a very accomplished sailor was of the opinion that these boats heeling anymore than 15 deg was a negative, sort of proved that a few times but maybe I wasn't correct and besides don't have a lot of time to ponder over 15 deg as am usually being yelled at because everything falls off the table bout then so tend to keep it there anyway.

The "15 degree rule" for Macs (both X and M) comes from the fact that at that heel, there's the least area of boat at the waterline in the water, so it's the heeling moment with the least drag. The hull actually has less drag at 15 degrees than when it's level, and for that reason, it makes the most speed there, everything else being equal.

You can control the heel within a very wide margin on Macs by feathering the main and avoiding being over-sheeted. If releasing the main doesn't keep you below 20 degrees, furl the headsail. Once you're down to a patch and you still can't keep 20 degrees, reef the main. Get to 20 degrees again, double reef. Get to 20 degrees a 3rd time, douse the main and drop the iron genny, it's time to go home.

[Ixneigh]

The hull shape change due to heel from power to sail is genius in my book.
It needs to heel to do that. The M more so then the X I think. I actually think 20 is a pretty effective angle but it's not very comfortable and only gains you a half a knot.
A lot of the time I'm not sailing the boat to her full potential because I WANT to go slow! Poking into shallow areas, seeing the sights along shore, or just enjoying being out on the water.

Ix

[Dry Tortugas 2013]

Miss my Mac 25 for pure sailing, especially in powerful wind, could leave much much more sail out. Was a ballsy boat...knocked the mast into the water a few times without fear, had a huge over sized spinnaker to push the limits. Used it more like a gennaker.

Like my Mac26x for comfort and the 15mph with outboard. Not likely to ever push it as hard; it's too tender and it contains more $$ toys within that I'd rather not break. The Mac26x don't point..40to50 off wind sound about right. Did hit 7 mph per gps two weeks ago on charlotte bay but I bet the tide was moving me for 2mph of that, 15 to 20mph winds, main second reef, small jib, 82 degree F and mostly sunny, love my tan

[dlandersson]

Yeah, Admiral and kids aren't real fans of heeling.

Im a fair sailor and have had my M model for almost 2 years and sailed it quite a bit. My average speed real world is around 4-5 knots at 15 degrees heel in nice conditions where its not too bumpy

When we bought the the sole dealer a very accomplished sailor was of the opinion that these boats heeling anymore than 15 deg was a negative, sort of proved that a few times but maybe I wasn't correct and besides don't have a lot of time to ponder over 15 deg as am usually being yelled at because everything falls off the table bout then so tend to keep it there anyway.

[wardski]

Miss my Mac 25 for pure sailing, especially in powerful wind, could leave much much more sail out. Was a ballsy boat...knocked the mast into the water a few times without fear, had a huge over sized spinnaker to push the limits. Used it more like a gennaker.

Like my Mac26x for comfort and the 15mph with outboard. Not likely to ever push it as hard; it's too tender and it contains more $$ toys within that I'd rather not break. The Mac26x don't point..40to50 off wind sound about right. Did hit 7 mph per gps two weeks ago on charlotte bay but I bet the tide was moving me for 2mph of that, 15 to 20mph winds, main second reef, small jib, 82 degree F and mostly sunny, love my tan

I too miss the sailing performance of our old Mac 25. She was quite a boat, would take lots of wind and slice right thru considerable waves. When we did a test sail on our 26m I brought along a GPS plotter and told Cherl if the boat couldn't point 45 degrees off the wind, we weren't interested. Cherl (who is an amazing sailer) of course did 5 nice tacks all at 45 degrees. It has taken me years and a change of jibs to replicate her ability. We love the 26m with its cabin and speed under power, but when the wind is really howling our thoughts go back to old 25 - she was quite a boat.

[C Striker]

I can tell you without a doubt that the M sails better than the X.my first time having the mainsail up was out in the ocean under calm conditions with an x beside me.the x was an experience sailor.don't ask me about wind direction or any of that other stuff i am the pop the beer OpenType sailor myself. The two boats were about the same when the X captain radios over asking me why I am steering to the right. I replied soon it will go straight!. Then of course I remember to lower the dagger bored and I pulled away.I would pull away from the X with my mainsail only. Then the x would open up his jib catch up and over take me. Then he would lower his job and I would over taker him. And that was basically how it went. It was a great time with a great teacher.I can only assume that the rotating mask on the M has everything to do with it. please pardon the typos as this is sent with my smartphone and me speaking into it. I fixed some stuff and other stuff just makes sense. I'm not trying to impress anybody just throw in my 2 cents in

Erik

[Ixneigh]

If sailing performance is the most important thing... Dont buy by the M. Of course. Sharpies where never about speed, and the M is just a modern sharpie. Nothing more. A few narrow, low sharpies such as the Egret would sail well and fairly fast. Boats with as much room in as short a length As the Mac powersailors will not EVER be steller sailors. But I tell you what, there ain't very many of those great sailing boats that will get me over miles of three foot deep water and let me stay there in great comfort for days or weeks. That's why I bought my M and she does that in spades.
If you have any doubt, go find an M and sail on it. I did a dealer demo on a brand new one to put my mind at ease that the boat sailed well enough to enjoy just days sailing. Had a great day on the water, crashed into the dock under sail, nearly sheared the daggerboard off on the trailor, bent a stanchion and added the first ding in the boat. I later bought the boat and have loved it ever since despite our rough start together.
There are rumors of a new model 26 being made by a spinoff company from macgregor yachts. If you are not in a hurry you might wait to see what improvements are made in that one.
Ix

[BOAT]

I started out in little Sabots and Lidos when I was 9 years old. My dad bought me my first little 12 foot Koralle Jr. when I was 10. Later, going from the little dinghy's to the bigger boats always was a bit of a letdown because performance was sluggish and the sailing boring for a kid. The little boats were more fun.

The more I study this M boat the more I like it and the more I am impressed with the design. I come from the days back in the 70's when trailer boats had no bilge - you walked right on the bottom, and decks were full of plywood and hulls were very heavy and ballast was lead. Those boats were great in heavy wind, but the heavy wind did not make them go much faster. My first ride in the M was quite an eye opener. I was not accustomed to a sailboat like that having 'acceleration'. We got that in Hobie cats and P cats, not bathtub boats. (The Hobie Cat is built right here in Oceanside).

Yes, the hardware on my old boats was really beefy - the stock hardware on my old Aquarius makes the M hardware look like toys, but guess what?? Even with the heavy hardware it too FAILED at times! Wanna know WHY? Cuz the boat was so HEAVY it NEEDED heavy hardware or it would BREAK!

The M boat is light as a feather! It's got all the hardware it needs for its weight. The boat will knock down before the hardware fails just like a dinghy!

And that was what my first ride on the M was like - in a real light wind it took off. I was amazed what the M can do with light wind. 70% of all the sailing you do will be in light to moderate wind. I used to watch the water looking for wind disturbances or even better; white spots or caps, in the old boats. I would spend my day rushing from one windy spot to the next so I could get a little acceleration. That sucks. With the M I can enjoy the way the wind is (light to moderate) 70% of the time.

I think if you want to point 10 degrees off in gale force slamming the swells ALL THE TIME then the Mac M is probably not your boat. A 12 meter rig is good for that kind of thing, and you really need a LOT of ballast and the associated hardware to carry that load.

I suppose the folks on the Atlantic side might have better advice for that kind of sailing.

[Ixneigh]

I've been having some really stellar sailing lately in 12-18 knot winds. I haven't had the GPS out due to sailing in local waters but the boats finally found herself, or I'm getting the hang of things or maybe its the Yankee jib I took out of storage. This is a perfectly setting very heavy weight sail off a larger boat. Probably a storm jib. The boats wonderfully balanced and wow THIS is sailing fast. This evening in hawks channel I was chastised by Customs for not having my lights on. Their big center console was putting up a big wake as they followed me asking questions. I was closed hauled with the board halfway up, going to Tavernier key for the night. I come down here from key largo frequently to get away from the petty politics of my local moorings. Few days ago I was sailing home, same conditions. 15-20 degrees heel, galloping along at a speed ld have been happy with on my old 33ft yawl. The M does have it in her. I guess you just have to catch her on a good day.
Ix

[DrV]

I have no issues with my boat sailing up-wind as seen in this vid
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0_2494.mp4
J

Do you have TWO jibs? Or shall I skip next beer? Wow.

[DrV]

It's important to point out that no 26 foot boot has a hull speed higher than 7 knots, and the Mac is one of the very rare boats capable of potentially doing better than hull speed when running.

<...>

It's a difficult boat sail well, which makes it all the more rewarding when you do.

And what's the Max speed (hull speed) of , say, 43 ft sailboats? Same 7 knots? I did my sailor training on a French 43ft boat, and I don't remember any speed faster than 7 kts.

Last summer, the big ones always got ahead of me in the sea. BROAD REACH + DOWNWIND RUNNING, GUYS!!! In good winds! In morning, wind was around 3 by Beaufort , and then 5-6 after 2 p.m. And the 'big' sailboats were alead of me. There is no doubt that I'm not a best sailor. I have no illusions about that. However, I DID try to do trimming, etc here and there. Every 5 minutes. And, still ... it was so rude of them to make me see them passing on me.

The best speed I ever made was 5...5.5 knots on a beam reach. (Yes, there was heeling up to 25 degrees sometimes, but I trust my that she won't let me down as long as I remember to fill the ballast.) However, when I turned so the SAME wind became broad reach - my speed was 4 kts MAX. Even when running downwind (including the 'batterfly' main + genny 150%). And still I don't have explanation for that. Maybe I didn't take our the daggerboard (hey, mine doesn't go up, in case boat has any speed > 0.5kts) but still



P.S. Just realized! Was it a bad idea to put anti-fouling on a daggerboard? I don't know about increase of drag, but definitely made it harder to move it both up and down!

[Russ]

And what's the Max speed (hull speed) of , say, 43 ft sailboats? Same 7 knots? I did my sailor training on a French 43ft boat, and I don't remember any speed faster than 7 kts.


Last summer, the big ones always got ahead of me in the sea. There is no doubt that I'm not a best sailor. I have no illusions about that. At least, I DID try to do trimming, etc here and there. Every 5 minutes. And, still ... it was so rude of them to make me see them passing on me.

I found this displacement hull speed graph. You need to use the length at waterline. It needs to be noted that the Mac is capable in certain conditions to partially plane and break from the displacement hull speed rules.

[DrV]

I found this displacement hull speed graph. You need to use the length at waterline. It needs to be noted that the Mac is capable in certain conditions to partially plane and break from the displacement hull speed rules.

Thanks, RussMT.
It made me even more confused - what are the units for length? is 26 feet, 8 meters, 312", but that all doesn't make sense... Probably I need to have more sleep (late here).

Ah, feet!!! We are so small for that table we have to study the left corner! Wow! Looks that on 200 ft yachts, it is possible to do wakeboarding when sailing!

[DrV]

My favourite sail is the spinnaker up to probably 15knots of wind

Wow!
That's all I can say.
Already have anymmetrical spinnaker, your post gives me a push to start thinking about how to rig a spinnaker.
(Came from official dealer even with proper line, but no manual whatsoever how to rig and even to raise it. Shall I install a new halyard?).

I remember few times last summer I was sailing downwind (and that was still slow, from 1.5 to 4 kts depending on wind!) , so you gave me a solid reason to install it.

but after that I get yelled at too much,

Why? No heeling involved! Why would anybody be unhappy? Or do they start to give you advices how to go faster?