The new Tattoo

[BOAT]

Question ... how does the daggerboard come up through the mast step?

Glenn

It doesn't. It just goes to the top of the cabin like in the 26.

Has anyone at the show actually SEEN a Tattoo 22 yet?? (A REAL one, not a picture).

[mastreb]

Yet this post on the Tattoo site mentions only the 26 at Annapolis:

http://tattooyachts.com/tattoo-yachts-w ... annapolis/

It's a mystery! I shall await a full report from our commodore.

[BOAT]

I do not see any place in that design picture for a flotation system that would work in the real world, (ie: flotation in the top so the boat does not turn upside down).

The ballast does not seem to be defined yet either. There are too many things about that picture that are still not worked out yet to make me think they are really that close to a production boat.

HEY GLEN, I think I misunderstood your question, are you asking how they REMOVE the dagger board?

[K9Kampers]

Re: flotation, I suspect that like the & , the 22's flotation would be located in the cockpit coamings, under the V-berth and around the anchor locker.

Re: daggerboard, I wonder if a removable mast hinge will allow thru-the-top access to the daggerboard sleeve.

[BOAT]

I really must assume it would use the same mast step as the MAC26. Why not? I don't really understand the daggerboard confusion, it just looks like the same setup as the M to me.

It's the other things that bother me -

There is not enough head room nor upper bulkheads for a proper flotation system.
To achieve headroom there seems to be no place for ballast at the keel where it belongs. (If the ballast is not balanced on the keel the boat will turn as it leans over).
There is no aft mast support for trailering - the picture reveal a need for a very tall mast support on the aft to allow for a deep mast step well. (Or will they move the mast support forward?).
The companion way will not accommodate a traveler if it's as deep as the picture, (which I really doubt too because a companionway that deep will not keep water out of the cabin).

There are about 20 more things that are bugging me based on the design presented but I'm not going to go into it all here. I just want to SEE the boat in real life. I really wonder how they are going to resolve a lot of the issues I do not see addressed in that picture.

Peter Barret was a Naval architect that designed many many commercial and recreational ships and large boats but he wrote that the hardest thing he ever had to do was design a 23 foot sailboat that could be put on a trailer. He said 25 and 30 and 40 foot boats were easy but the most challenge what trying to go below 23 feet. Usually there are MAJOR compromises when you cross the 23 foot barrier. I still very curious to see how these folks plan to pull it off. It's not as easy as you may think.

[Russ]

I do not see any place in that design picture for a flotation system that would work in the real world, (ie: flotation in the top so the boat does not turn upside down).

Who says it has to be upright? Who says flotation is required?

(a) Each boat must have enough flotation to keep any portion of the boat above the surface of the water when the boat has been submerged in calm, fresh water for at least 18 hours and loaded with:
(1) A weight that, when submerged, equals two-fifteenths of the persons capacity marked on the boat;
(2) A weight that, when submerged, equals 25 percent of the dead weight; and
(3) A weight in pounds that, when submerged, equals 62.4 times the volume in cubic feet of the two largest air chambers, if air chambers are used for flotation.
(b) For the purpose of this section, “dead weight” means the maximum weight capacity marked on the boat minus the persons capacity marked on the boat.

FEDERAL LAW

183.101 - Applicability
This subpart applies to monohull inboard boats, inboard/outdrive boats, and airboats less than 20 feet in length, except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, inflatable boats, submersibles, surface effect vessels, amphibious vessels, and raceboats.

The Mac/Tatto is greater than 20 feet, therefore as I read the law, not required to have flotation.
I've never understood the fascination with this unsinkable feature. I never for a second thought my Hunter 34 wouldn't sink like a rock if holed, yet I wasn't afraid to operate it. I left the drain plug out of my Force 5 and raced for shore because I thought for sure I was going to sink the thing as it filled up. There may have been flotation in there, but I didn't count on it.

I agree that the line drawing of the Tat 22 leave many unanswered question. I'm sure they will be answered soon.

--Russ

[BOAT]

So it appears that your assumption is that the Tattoo 22 will not have the upright flotation feature.

That is exactly the conclusion I was eluding to when I wrote the post, and you just confirmed it.

[kmclemore]

I would not jump to conclusions here, and nothing is 'confirmed'.

You are only looking at one diagram and not a complete cross section of the entirety of the vessel. As noted, there may be flotation beneath the cockpit seats as well as on either side of the bow ceiling (as on the 26X), and neither would be evident in the type of cross section we currently have.

Indeed, if you took a similar cross section of the 26X you'd see a similar lack of flotation -- none of the published factory MacGregor drawings show all the flotation that's in the 26X or 26M.



Let's wait to see the final product or hear directly from the builders before we draw conclusions.

[BOAT]

I am not making any conclusions, Russ is.

I am just asking how they are going to address all the issues that are not evident in the drawings. In my opinion based on the marketing data they have provided so far i would not make a down payment or a reserve fee.

There are just too many holes in the design.

There are some very good ideas in that plan, like the galley - if you look at the drawing they have moved the galley rails from UNDER the galley to BEHIND the galley - that would make the galley "float" above the berth and eliminate the need to change cushions when sliding the galley - it would also make it a lot easier to gain access to the compartments. The plan looks like it has aluminum slides made of the same stuff we see all over the M boat (that round grey aluminum pole stock) which I am a great fan of because of it's incredible strength to weight ratio. But, I see a problem for having a back rest with those aluminum "pole slides" there. If the back rests are thick enough it could work quite well and be a huge improvement over the M galley.

DETAILS are my JOB - I'm a database administrator - very little passes my notice. (Being a little bit autistic helps too).

I like the idea, but if this is all still just in the concept stage I clearly doubt there is going to be a boat at the show. If this is all they have they are still a LONG way from a working boat.

[kmclemore]

That is exactly the conclusion I was eluding to...

I am not making any conclusions, Russ is.

Hmm. OK.

There are just too many holes in the design.

From what you know of it, yes, there may be - much is yet to be disclosed.

That being said, I'm sure the folks at Tattoo have got this covered, having been raised in the boat building business their entire lives, and in a business which has created some of the best-selling, durable and safe under-26-foot boats ever made (and 26-foot, as well, for that matter).

[BOAT]

Like I said in my above edit (I was typing when you responded) I want to see details, not a concept.

If anyone at the show can get a look at this in real life it sure would be a big help.

[kmclemore]

Like I said in my above edit (I was typing when you responded) I want to see details, not a concept.

If anyone at the show can get a look at this in real life it sure would be a big help.

Agree. I am going to touch base with the Tattoo folks and ask them for some further details on the new Tattoo 22. Meanwhile, let's hold off on jumping to conclusions (that goes for everyone) before all the facts are disclosed. I doubt that there are any 'holes' in the actual design. These folks have been building fantastic boats - in a full range of sizes - for a very long time indeed... and I can't really think of a single one that was a disappointment.

[RobertB]

I went back to the Tattoo site and looked at the content on the T-22. Where in the world are people getting all this detailed design information to make such statements about the design? I admit, I may not be a database administrator but I do have several decades experience as a mechanical/systems engineer and all I see is a conceptual cartoon without much detail. My guess is that since Tattoo is introducing a new model, they probably do not want to publish detailed design drawings before they even sell one - or possibly complete qualification/certification activities that may drive some design changes.

[K9Kampers]

...DETAILS are my JOB ...

You forgot to mention the freestanding 'stayless' mast!

While your enthusiasm toward discussion of this new product is noted, drawing conclusions based on a speculative artistic rendering is folly. Reserve your critique for the actual product reveal.

I suspect that this product could stimulate competition in the affordable trailersailing market, but that is not my conclusion... based on lack of concrete data!

[Russ]

So it appears that your assumption is that the Tattoo 22 will not have the upright flotation feature.

That is exactly the conclusion I was eluding to when I wrote the post, and you just confirmed it.

I wouldn't assume anything. My only point was that you can't assume that there is no flotation because you don't see it up high. Could be low in the boat or could be absent altogether. My guess is that the line drawing is primitive and there is lots to learn in the future. I would speculate that the Macgregor lineage will include flotation. But that's just speculation.