Troubleshooting a rounding-up problem

[Be Free]

Don't forget to put either seizing wire, rings, or pins.

Also, it's a good idea to make it part of your preventive maintenance to pull those covers off periodically and check for corrosion, cracks, deformation, or any other problems.

Looking good!

[DaveC426913]

Meanwhile, the next pain point I hope to address is my bimini, seen here:


Oops. Is that the wrong pic? It's hard to tell.

Here it is from another angle:

my
How can this thing not dominate the sail plan when I'm heeled over at 20 degrees?

[DaveC426913]

Don't forget to put either seizing wire, rings, or pins.

Yes, They come with teeny tiny cotter pins. I bought some ring dings with theh intent of replacing the cotters, but at 1/4", the space is a bit limited.

Also, it's a good idea to make it part of your preventive maintenance to pull those covers off periodically and check for corrosion, cracks, deformation, or any other problems.

Yes, This is why I ensure the protectors are free to slide up for a quick check anytime.

[Be Free]

Epilogue: I do not know if it cause-and-effect but I took her out for a spin afterward.

In a light 4 knot wind, doing about 3.5 knots, I completed three consecutive tacks of 100 degrees. That's 10 degress less than my previous bests and about 20 degrees less than my usual worsts.

I still rounded up once, though I had the main sheeted all the way in, and I didn't ease it as I started rounding up.

I have yet to test her in some stronger breezes.

I wish you lived closer!

Something is wrong with your measurements. A Mac can't do 3.5 knots in a 4 knot wind (unless you are using the engine) and you should never round up in a 3.5 knot wind. How much were you heeled?

[Be Free]

Meanwhile, the next pain point I hope to address is my bimini, seen here:


Oops. Is that the wrong pic? It's hard to tell.

Here it is from another angle:

my
How can this thing not dominate the sail plan when I'm heeled over at 20 degrees?

You never mentioned your "X" is a ketch. Highlander will be jealous

If your bimini is actually catching (no pun intended) enough wind that could explain all of your unexpected rounding up issues. That is a lot of surface area well aft of the CE (I can say that now because now you know what a "CE" is).

[DaveC426913]

Something is wrong with your measurements. A Mac can't do 3.5 knots in a 4 knot wind (unless you are using the engine)

l
I was wondering about this. I hemmed and hawed about my estimation. When hove to, I could barely feel a breeze. It cannot have been more than 4 knots (but again, I don't trust my wind speed estimation). I also didn't have my GPS on so I estimated my speed. I am confident that it was at least 3 knots. 3.5 is not implausible either.

and you should never round up in a 3.5 knot wind. How much were you heeled?

It certainly was unusual. I am tempted to write it off as an outlier data point. Shrouds wasn't the only thing I was fiddling with. I swapped out my jib sheets for one long sheet and in doing so, messed up my furler calibration. My genoa would not deploy 100% because the furler line flled up and bound in the drum. I had to heave to and tke my sheets off the blocks and unwrap my genoa two wraps before reattching them.

Now, I think the round-up occured after this was fixed, so cause-effect seems to rule this out. My point being it was not a typical sail.

I will have better data next time.

Alas, haul out is but a few weeks away, so I may only get one or two more chances before end of season.

[DaveC426913]

You never mentioned your "X" is a ketch. Highlander will be jealous

My "stern spinnaker".

If your bimini is actually catching (no pun intended) enough wind that could explain all of your unexpected rounding up issues. That is a lot of surface area well aft of the CE (I can say that now because now you know what a "CE" is).

Yes, I always seem to forget about it, especially in challenging conditions.

I plan to jerry-rig a "quick retract" system so I can fold the bimini back without having to stand on the seat and turn my back to the helm while underway.

[Be Free]

Estimating wind and boat speed can be challenging. I almost always have my chart plotter on so I seldom have to estimate boat speed but it can be a welcome diversion on a long cruise. I only have a hand-held wind instrument so I can only measure the wind at deck level. That's not ideal but It's all I have for now.

On my boat I first start to hear a bit of noise from the rudders around 2 knots. That's also about the slowest I can be going and be sure that I can complete a tack without any problems so I'm always aware of the sound of the rudders in light air.

The faster I'm going the louder the rudder noise gets and I've gotten pretty good at estimating speed through water that way. Where I sail there is little current to speak of once I get off shore so that's seldom an issue. Is it possible that your odd wind/speed report earlier was affected by current?

I usually judge wind speed with a combination of boat speed, point of sail, reef, heel, and then do a sanity check against the water conditions. For example, if I'm heeled about 15 degrees, the rudders are quite noisy, and I'm a little over 40 degrees off the wind I know I'm probably doing somewhere in the low 4 knot range and the wind is around 12 knots. If the water shows a light chop (or some small, closely spaced waves if it's been blowing steady for a while) and I still have all of my canvas up then the estimate is probably pretty close.

If I turn it around and run a little shy of DDW, full canvas, and the same light chop, and just a hint of centerboard still in the water then the rudders will not be nearly as noisy, and and my boat speed will be in the high 5's, maybe even an occasional 6 knots for a while.

[DaveC426913]

Estimating wind and boat speed can be challenging.

I get a lot of feedback from my plotter, which gives me a lot of confidence when doing boat speed estimations without the plotter.

I have no wind speed feedback so, estimate as I might, I have few ways to calibrate it - no way to know if I'm objectively right.

I usually judge wind speed with a combination of boat speed, point of sail, reef, heel, and then do a sanity check against the water conditions. For example, if I'm heeled about 15 degrees, the rudders are quite noisy, and I'm a little over 40 degrees off the wind I know I'm probably doing somewhere in the low 4 knot range and the wind is around 12 knots. If the water shows a light chop (or some small, closely spaced waves if it's been blowing steady for a while) and I still have all of my canvas up then the estimate is probably pretty close.

Yep. I am very attuned to the myriad hints at boat speed, especially rudder slosh. Have to factor in point of sail, because a broad reach can be very deceptive.


I suppose one of the things I'm coming to terms with in these new waters is that winds vary quite a lot over short distances. It's very common to have 7+ knots down the centre third of the harbour with zero knots on either side. It also exaggerates the effect where winds are higher aloft.

So it's quite possible when I was doing 3.5 knots I was in a 5 or 6 knot wind aloft, and when I hove-to my estimated wind speed was, like, one.

[vkmaynard]

Got rid of round up by bottoming out the forestay then tuning our rig.

Victor

[DaveC426913]

Got rid of round up by bottoming out the forestay then tuning our rig.

That's a bit vague.
I assume you man shortened your forestay as much as possible. Mine is as short as it can be, and it is VERY difficult to attach, meaning there's no way of shortening it more.

As for tuning, that's what we've been discussing. A properly raked mast should have about 4 degrees of rake. That puts the masthead about 24" off from the foot. My mast is within an inch of that.

Now I'm working on the shrouds.

[Be Free]

I don't remember if we discussed your back stay. Is it adjustable and if so do you loosen it before attaching your fore stay?

[DaveC426913]

I don't remember if we discussed your back stay. Is it adjustable and if so do you loosen it before attaching your fore stay?

My backstay is floppy. If it ever interfered with mast raising, I'd simply disconnect it till I'm done.

(By the way, I am slipped, so I only need to raise my mast once per year.)

[Be Free]

Just checking. I did not think about my backstay when I was first learning how to raise my mast. At one point I noticed that sometimes it was easy to pin the fore stay and other times it was almost impossible. The difference was the state that I had left the adjustable backstay when I dropped the mast on the previous use.

[DaveC426913]

I think maybe what I'll do in the future when raising my mast is disconnect/loosen the outer (spreader) shrouds.

They're the only ones that provide a significant resisting force when trying to attach the forestay because they're aft of the mast.

I could mark the turnbuckles to know where to tighten them to, but really, it looks like I'll be just hand tightening them to almost fully closed.