MacGregorSailors.com

I ran across this bit of data in the online US Boat Seaworthy magazine today. Thought it might be helpful for this thread of discussion.
"Once a boat starts to sink, it will gain momentum as it settles into the water. If a boat has a two-inch hole that is a foot below the waterline, for example, over 78 gallons of water will pour into the boat per minute. When the same hole is three feet below the surface, the flow of water increases to 136 gallons per minute. Keep in mind also, that other thru-hulls that had been above the waterline will be underwater. If any of these fittings are cracked or missing, the flow of water into the boat will accelerate further." Not knowledgeable about these matters, personally, but these numbers are soboring! Herschel

To put it into perspectve, a decent size Rule bilge pump might be 500 gpm rated, but thats at full battery voltage, no head, and no check valves. It easily could not be able to keep up with that 2 inch leak with all of the real world factors applied...

On edit - should have read 500 gallon per hour rated, which is only 8 gallons per minute ideal, which is major glug glug for the 78 gallon per minute leak above

thanks for catching that goof Chip...

fran trapp, when the hull was upside down, did you notice any hull damage?
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My Suzuki dealer has repaired submerged motors before. One of his DF70 customers sunk his work boat and motor twice. The first time they changed out the electronics and oil and removed spark plugs while cranking it over to get possible water out of cylinders. The second time they did not change the electronics, once dried out, and after making sure there was no water in the engine, it started right up and ran nice.
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I would get your motor worked on right away before it rusts inside.

Fran,

Have you been able to figure out what happened yet?

a decent size Rule bilge pump might be 500 gpm...

That would be gph, not gpm. Depending on the head, your typical small 500gph pump is something well under 8gpm.

The point is, there is no bilge pump which can keep up with water ingress from even a relatively small hole for any length of time. If you have a hole below the waterline, you need to plug it quickly to give the bilge pump(s) a chance.

thanks for correcting Chip...i edited post above too.

Figured out what happend yet?

Fran,

I’m very sorry to hear about your boating accident. I didn't have time to read all the posts in this thread, but scanned a few. So if what I'm about to write was already covered by another person then I'm sorry for being redundant.

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but this may help someone that reads these things. Anytime you find yourself heeled to far or especially in a blow-down or knockdown situation, always release the sheets first and as quickly as possible. Preferably release the main sheet first, then the jib sheet, but in a panic situation it doesn't matter which goes first as long as you release them both like "now".

What will happen next is the sails will luff and with no force on the sails the boat should immediately right itself, and then the boat will point up (bow into the wind), giving you opportunity, to reef, trim or adjust what needs adjusting, or just take the sails down and motor to safe anchorage if the wind is too heavy.

The fact that you had one knock down may have been inevitable with a quick change of wind direction and wind speed like what happens with an approaching squall. However the fact that you had two knockdowns back to back means you didn't release the sheets with the first. Or you wouldn't have had the second knockdown.

Also for safety sake always reef in the face of an oncoming storm or squall ahead of it hitting you. This will position you better with the leading edge of the storm which usually carries the most violent and unpredictable wind speed and direction changes. Learning to read or recognize a squall line by the lined-up cloud formations will also pay dividends.

Kindest Regards and Empathy,
JonBill

Preferably release the main sheet first, then the jib sheet, but in a panic situation it doesn't matter which goes first as long as you release them both like "now".

What will happen next is the sails will luff and with no force on the sails the boat should immediately right itself, and then the boat will point up (bow into the wind),

Is this everyone else's experience?? I find that even after I release the sheets ALOT of the time my Mac (and now my Odin) does NOT point up into the wind due to the windage from our high freeboard (and light boat weight) but rather will just be pushed sideways with the hull acting like a 'sail' and the rudders not being large enough to be able to turn the boat into the wind easily. What's YOUR experience?

Well I learned something from reading all these posts. I often sail and/or motor with the fore hatch propped open, because it is always open in the slip for ventilation. Well, I NEVER considered what COULD happen if the hatch was open and water started pouring in - - - so I will NEVER do that again!!! Part of my "take off" procedure will now be to close the hatch before departing. What I dummy I've been (am)!

Rick

Rick, I think its a bit extreme to say you will never sail/motor with your hatch open just in case you get rolled over. Kind of like saying you will never drive your car with your windows down just in case the car falls into a lake. I know down in Florida, the cabin will cook without that front hatch open. I also know my Mac won't heel more than about 40-45 degrees without rounding up so I never worry about knockdowns too much.

OK - - maybe I will keep the hatch open while underway - - - I'm easy - - - except there is never anyone below when I am underway!

Rick

Is this everyone else's experience?? I find that even after I release the sheets ALOT of the time my Mac (and now my Odin) does NOT point up into the wind due to the windage from our high freeboard (and light boat weight) but rather will just be pushed sideways with the hull acting like a 'sail' and the rudders not being large enough to be able to turn the boat into the wind easily. What's YOUR experience?

Mine has always rounded up before it got to where I was really worried. I normally do try to release the main if it heels too much and that always works going upwind. If I'm on a reach releasing the sheet doesn't help much because at least on the M, the boom only goes out so far. I've experimented with raising up the board aways in these conditions but the results to this point are inconclusive.

BB

Hi Fran

Anymore news you can tells us about your capsize.

The more we all know..the safer we'll all be.

thanks

Bob

Moondance wrote:Hi Fran

Anymore news you can tells us about your capsize.

The more we all know..the safer we'll all be.

thanks

Bob

yes, I agree. This has been a chilling thread. Im hoping for more details also.

Thanks.