New 26X owner, going to need a lot of help!

[dlandersson]

Ok, my X ice box (from the factory) is under a seat at my table. I'm not sure that's what you have in mind?

Would someone please send me a couple pictures of their X ice box hatch cover? I measured and made some templates so that I can make some new ones, but I feel like I don't have my ice box cover correct. I feel like there is too much space not covered between my template edge and the edge of the fiberglass before the recessed part for the table. In particular, a clear shot of the front edge to show how close it is to the edge of the molded fiberglass. I can PM anyone my cell # so that the pictures can be sent easier if that works, I'd really appreciate it.

[SlowSL]

Ok, my X ice box (from the factory) is under a seat at my table. I'm not sure that's what you have in mind?

Would someone please send me a couple pictures of their X ice box hatch cover? I measured and made some templates so that I can make some new ones, but I feel like I don't have my ice box cover correct. I feel like there is too much space not covered between my template edge and the edge of the fiberglass before the recessed part for the table. In particular, a clear shot of the front edge to show how close it is to the edge of the molded fiberglass. I can PM anyone my cell # so that the pictures can be sent easier if that works, I'd really appreciate it.

This is what I'm trying to get at. The template currently looks like "A". It follows the radius contour perfectly, but this leaves a large gap between the hatch and the edge of the seat. I'm wondering if the hatch should be closer to the edge, such as example "B" or "C". My thought is that with the large gap, this would allow the cushion to sag in that area when someone is seated. Not sure if it wouldn't feel right under your legs or possibly cause the cushion or fabric to wear prematurely. I'm sure I'm overthinking this, but was just curious how much of a gap there is on an oem hatch cover. I'll probably re-adjust to B or C.

[OverEasy]

Hi!

Here are some pictures of our factory issued aft “ice chest” dinette seat cover on our Mac26X.

Dimensions: 33-1/8” long x 17-3/4” wide x 1/4” thick
Gap: fore/aft = approx. 3/8”,
port/starboard = 1/8”
Note: Cover sits flat and does not contact bench recess radii

Hope this helps!

[OverEasy]

Also, the four corner radii of cover is roughly 3 inches.

[SlowSL]

Also, the four corner radii of cover is roughly 3 inches.

Thank you! this info is exactly what I needed, now on to cutting the pvc!

[OverEasy]

Hi All!

Installation of my initial 3 midship bilge pumps slowly progresses....painfully slow.
Figured it might be a good idea ( could be wrong.... ) to post a couple pictures in-process.
You can see my ‘oopsie” hole on the starboard side. Already fiberglassed the interior and will get to fixing the exterior with gel coat later.

I capped off the original Mac26X galley and head sinks with PVC elbows and threaded plugs (just in case they might be needed in the future.

[Russ]

I've never sailed an X. When the X heals, is that above the waterline?
I think I've gotten my "M" to heal where that would be submerged.

[Starscream]

Hi All!

Installation of my initial 3 midship bilge pumps slowly progresses....painfully slow.
Figured it might be a good idea ( could be wrong.... ) to post a couple pictures in-process.
You can see my ‘oopsie” hole on the starboard side. Already fiberglassed the interior and will get to fixing the exterior with gel coat later.

I capped off the original Mac26X galley and head sinks with PVC elbows and threaded plugs (just in case they might be needed in the future.

Thanks for those photos. I'm in the process of installing a second bilge pump; we already have a port bilge pump exiting under the galley and this helps visualize what to do on the starboard side. Two bilge pumps might be overkill (three definitely is ) given that there are literally thousands of X's and M's and D's and S's and Ventures floating around with no automatic bilge pumps whatsoever. (If not tens of thousands.)

Russ, yes, I think those thru-hulls will be below the waterline on a good heel. The question is how much water will get in during those events since the bilge-pump hose will be almost horizontal when heeled over that far, and almost all bilge pumps come with these:



OverEasy, I presume you included those backflow valves in the piping? Otherwise an upwards loop would be required, maybe with a siphon breaker valve. Would it have been possible to get the thru-hulls on the starboard side another inch or so higher?

[Russ]

Russ, yes, I think those thru-hulls will be below the waterline on a good heel. The question is how much water will get in during those events since the bilge-pump hose will be almost horizontal when heeled over that far, and almost all bilge pumps come with these:

With a loop, the outlet location would not seem to be a problem. Without a loop and heeled below the water line, seawater would be trying to come in. One-way valves have been discussed in another thread. Apparently, they are a no-no with bilge pumps for various reasons, although counterintuitive.

I've always questioned the factory thru-hull sink drain being so low at the waterline. I guess the actual sink is always above the waterline even if the drain gets submerged. Why didn't Roger put seacock valves on these things?

[Russ]

I capped off the original Mac26X galley and head sinks with PVC elbows and threaded plugs (just in case they might be needed in the future.

So are you planning on not using the factory drain thru-hull? Rerouting it?

[Jimmyt]

Your boat, your rules. I am offering some friendly info to you, hoping not to offend. Feel free to do what the Admiral does and ignore me entirely.

Might want to check with your insurer regarding whether you're required to conform to ABYC standards, or other codes/standards for your coverage - since it's a mod you are doing.

On that original thru-hull, I would have glued a plug in it rather than adding a plastic fitting tree. What you have is much easier to break loose than the original condition. Don't store your Costco sized baked bean cans in that area.

The discharge should be above the max heeled, and/or loaded water line per ABYC. The older version allowed a vented high loop exception, but did not allow check valves to stop backflow (although that is specifically what they are designed to do). Not sure what the current version says.

Don't think the Atwood Sahara S750 has check valves. My Rule 1100 bilge pump is similar and did not come with any type of check valve.

At any rate, high loops aren't difficult to add. And, unless you've removed your flotation, it's an unsinkable boat.

Couple of interesting tidbits in the Sahara S750 info, though.

[OverEasy]

Hi All

Thanks for the comments. They are all really appreciated.

The original Mac26Xdrains are based on schedule 40 PVC pipe sections that MacGregor fiberglassed in place leaving a section exposed for clamping a hose on. A slip fit band clamped vinyl tubing isn’t what I would really consider a secure connection.

We looked up current requirements and there really should be a seacock valve there right at the penetrations. There isn’t a reasonable means to remove them either.

The fresh water lakes and marinas that we have looked into have restrictions on grey water dumping so eliminating the sink drains was a ‘to-do’ list item. There isn’t much of an extension available and the glued elbow / threaded plug makes it potentially available should it be needed for something (I don’t know what I might ever use them for but it is securely plugged now but not permanently disabled).

At 18 inches above waterline they are within the acceptable requirements as far as I can currently determine within the geometry available.

We did consider running the drains to the stern but access is nearly impossible and that would have required making several access penetrations and removal of flotation. The line losses and head losses are significant and the high loop would still be a significant detriment. The long runs would also introduce more opportunities for air locks.

If I get into aggressively heeling over far enough to submerge the current discharge ports I can access the interior and install seacocks at the through-hulls. But I doubt that it will be an issue.

In this coming season I’ll honestly try to test this out heeling over that far and post what I find happens.

[Starscream]

Jimmy, you are doing the right thing. Share your knowledge, and allow for your-boat-your-rules. The perfect combo.

Here are the instructions for plumbing a bilge pump, if you want to do it right. Copied from Rule/Xylem website:

The thru-hull discharge fitting should be mounted at least 8” (20.3 cm) above the heeled water line to prevent water
siphoning in from outside the vessel or the discharge may be located below the maximum heeled waterline if the
discharge line is provided with both of the following:
• A seacock installed in accordance with the requirements of ABYC H-27, Seacocks, Thru-Hull Connections, and
Drain Plugs, and
• A vented loop or other means to prevent siphoning into the boat. A check valve shall not be used for this purpose.

As you said, to do it properly you have to establish the heeled waterline, which, at least once on my X, has been the windows. One could probably argue with an insurance inspector that a thru-hull above the chine isn't below the heeled waterline because they wouldn't know any better. But my method of a gradual line up to the thru hull, with the "duckbill" backflow preventer, obviously isn't up to code. But I've made peace with that, mainly because I don't dip the chine in the water much any more, and when I do I'm aware that water could come in. None has yet, so I'm OK with the situation.

The best place to put the pump discharge is high on the stern where Jimmy has his, in which case neither a seacock nor a loop is required.

Oh, speaking of code: I was installing a USB outlet in the admiral's berth last night and snapped a photo of the factory negative bus-bar. WTF. Wrapped in black electrical tape: that MUST be ABYC compliant then! Well, I just shoved the whole ball back in there, out of sight, out of mind.


I can just imagine some guy at the Mac factory putting the ABYC code through the shredder in a back room.

[OverEasy]

The kind thoughtful considerations are appreciated and are taken to heart.
There is never any harm in acknowledging good advice and incorporating it while one is at it anyway.
While everything is still fresh and open I’ll go ahead and incorporate the seacocks at the feed-throughs and ensure ready access to them. That way they will be there if ever needed.
In all honesty, Thanks Guys!

[Russ]

But my method of a gradual line up to the thru hull, with the "duckbill" backflow preventer, obviously isn't up to code. But I've made peace with that, mainly because I don't dip the chine in the water much any more, and when I do I'm aware that water could come in. None has yet, so I'm OK with the situation.

I was reading someplace the reason check valves are not allowed for bilge pumps is because they can easily fail. The nature of bilge pumps is to pump messy water that is often full of debris. This can foul the check valve. And in some conditions when the through hull is below the water line, cause a siphon back into the bilge. This is why I guess, vents are required to break siphon. Check valves can help create that siphon.

I recall a captain who installed a porthole above the chines. He son borrowed the boat and left them open. He was unaware and after a slight heel noticed the steering got really janky. Looking down he saw a foot of water in the cabin. This took seconds.

An insurance adjuster might not spot the error. But who wants to create a mod that requires an insurance adjuster? Testing that "unsinkable" feature isn't on my bucket list.
Interesting item Jimmy posted above where the instructions specifically said NOT to use silicone-based sealants on plastic. I've always heard this for marine use, but I never knew why.

Oh, speaking of code: I was installing a USB outlet in the admiral's berth last night and snapped a photo of the factory negative bus-bar. WTF. Wrapped in black electrical tape: that MUST be ABYC compliant then! Well, I just shoved the whole ball back in there, out of sight, out of mind.
I can just imagine some guy at the Mac factory putting the ABYC code through the shredder in a back room.

Or the lamp cord.

My "M" had a similar neg bus-bolt only it was actually bolted to the liner so it can't bounce around. It's now replaced with a proper busbar.
I remember having a conversation with Cheryl at BWY about the factory workers as she had some first-hand knowledge. Yea, these guys are not ABYC scholars.