MacGregorSailors.com

I talked to the Macgregor people yesterday, and they gave me phone number for a dealer who talked to me about the macgregor mast lifting system. I was told that I could retrofit the system to my Mac 25 with a few extra parts that they would be happy to supply. They estimated the total cost for part for my Mac 25 to be about 150 to 175 dollars. They also suggested I ask if anybody here on this forum has retrofitted their Mac 25 with the mast raising system, and was it practical and worthwhile according to their respective experience(s). So I am asking you guys..has anybody done this and would you recommend it? Was it very difficult to DIY?

The mast raising system on my Mac19 is basically a pole and a couple of baby stays. Not sure you need a dealer charging lots of dollars for the bits!

Have a look at the manual http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/p10.html and you will see what I mean.

The pole acts as a cantilever between the base of the mast and the jib halyard and the main sheet is the block and tackle to pull the mast up or let it down. The baby stays stop the mast falling to either side during the process. Simple.

Thanks for the insight...I am still considering what to do. I still have some time to consider my options, my trailer is being reworked right now, so my boat is unavailable. The trailer the boat was on when we bought the Mac 25 was too tall for the boat...the boat sits too high and the center of gravity was too high. Also the boat weighed more than the axle weight could support. I was lucky to find the single guy that everyone with boats goes to here in Dallas, Texas...and he is reworking the trailer for me...I am anxious to get my boat back so I can finish with the major mods I have planned.

I used one of the new MRS on my Mac 25. Instead of retrofitting, and making something to connect it to at the mast step, I simply rested it up against the step and held it there, making sure it did not move. Not the best way, and not the safest, but it worked fine. I never did get around to mounting padeyes on deck for the baby stays that came with the MRS either. I would always keep a hand on the MRS line that led to the D-ring I installed up the mast to connect the MRS line to, and used it to keep the mast from swaying in the wind, a job the baby stays would do if installed. I just did not want to be punching more holes into my deck. I was in a slip, too, to the mast was raised once or twice per year at most. If trailering it, then installing the baby stays and doing the connection at the step correctly would be a good idea.

i, I bought the mast raising system for my 1992 MacS and it is the best thing since sliced bread. It took less that 2 hours to install and then we raised the mast in less than 3 minutes. I bought it from Blue Water Yachts and it is great and quick. Pete

There are several "Mac" lifting systems. The classics used a longer pole than the X. The M has a winch on the pole as I understand it. BWY may have the variations you might want to look to buy.

Newell
Fast Sunday 96X

The M does have a winch on the pole - - - and for the record - - - DO NOT leave the winch unnatended when it is bearing the weight of the mast - - - there apparently have been some incidents of the winch letting loose and the mast, therefore, coming down

Rick

I order my lifting system from MacGregor. He was real helpful. Had to order a different mast base plate. I have a 1989 26D Mac. Cost about 175 dollars. Best money I ever spent on the boat. Considering all the hardware, rope, and extra "baby stays", I don't know if I could have spent less money designing it myself. I can pull the mast up in 3 minutes and let it down pretty easy. I had some trouble, of my own making. Rope came untie once. I have to remember to lube the pulley system, etc. The system makes this the easiest boat I own(10) to set the mast.

You can not buy the parts cheaper than the BWY parts and the system works great on my Mac 25. You will need to install two base bolts rings near the boat edge in line with the mast base for the baby stays to attach to. Since the mac 25 boat edges are lower than the mast base, you must allow the baby stays to be somewhat loose as the mast raises. This is OK since they still will keep the mast relatively straight. You can leave the baby stays attached as you move the mast into position for trailing. I beefed up the mast base where the swivel base attaches with SS plate and rebuilt the mast support in the cabin and installed another SS plate inside. This really helped make the mast base sturdier.

Good Luck

I have a MacGregor/Venture 25 (1979). I am interested in the MLS that BWY has to offer. My question is: what modifications are necessary to the standard mast step to accomodate the gin pole? Do I need a new mast step or does someone have a good idea on how to modify the existing mast step?

I ordered the system from Blue Water Yachts last year for my 1982 Mac 25 and just got around to installing it. It came with a new hinged mast base which I already installed. I've also installed the bail onto the mast where the system attaches and pulls the mast up. The only thing I have left are the two side supports (baby stays). I'm not exactly sure where I need to drill the holes to bolt in the attachment points for them. My instructions aren't exactly clear about it, and I don't want to drill holes and hook them up just to raise the mast and find that they're too loose or too tight and have to take them off and drill more holes all over again. Do any of you guys who have already installed the system on your Mac 25 have any tips/suggestions, or measurements that worked correctly for you? Otherwise, the only thing I could do is get someone to help me raise the mast first, then measure out the correct spots where the baby stays should go so that I know I get it right. Problem is... I don't have anyone (without a bad back) available this week to help me raise the mast. So any suggestions would be appreciated, and probably help others as well.

Hey, I'd help you, I'm here, you'r there, talks cheap. Sorry about your back, mine too. The only best way does indeed involve raising the mast before fitting! Key to remember is the hinge line of the mast and of the babystays should be in a straight line.
Mike Inmon

OK, well I'm going to try to raise the mast this week and go ahead and install the baby stays. I had planned on having the boat ready to go to the lake this weekend and camp for a few days, but may not be able to get it ready in time. I'm not 100% comfortable with a few things, and if these things need to be worked on before I go, then I just won't have the time to do it.


One question I have is: if you're using the system to raise the mast by yourself, are you just able to start winching it up straight from your mast crutch? My boat is the Mac 25, and has the two angled brackets for the mast crutch... but no crutch. As of right now, the mast just rests on the stern pulpit. I've seen people who have simply cut their crutch from 2x4's, others fabricating stainless or aluminum crutches, and then some fabricating their own completely different system mounting to the pulpit railing or elsewhere on the stern. Basically, I'm just wondering if I should cut one from a 2x4 for now, and about how long I should make it. I've read other posts and some say 5 ft. others say it needs to go even higher so that the pop-top can be up even when the mast is down. I would think that a taller crutch would be good not only for allowing the pop-top to be up but also, the higher that end of the mast is, the less strain it should put on the mast raising system (making it more safe) and the easier it should be to raise single handed. The draw-back I see to having a taller crutch though is the possibility of it breaking while in transit if the trailer gets a good jolt (or I fail to miss one of our infamous Louisiana highway potholes) and a taller crutch would also end up holding the mast further off-center. I'd also tend to think that since a crutch mounted at slanted angle as the factory mounts are made, that would cause uneven weight distribution and possibly put enough strain on the mounts to rip them out, especially if the crutch were made longer, which would basically give more leverage. I'm sure many of you have thought about this and found many different ways to deal with it. I'm just trying to find the quickest yet best way to build the crutch for now, so any of your suggestions on the ideal length (height) that I should cut the mast crutch or any tips and tricks concerning the crutch or the Mast Raising System would be great.


On other concern I have, is the bow cleat which the support line for the pole of the system attaches. I don't know if this is factory Macgregor hardware or what. In fact, since the Mast Lifting Kit wasn't even out when the 25 was made, would the factory Mac cleat and backing even be adequate for taking on the weight of that boom? It's a large cleat, not metal, looks to be strong but not sure how old it is. Also, the two screws holding it in seem to be OK, though I don't know how much stress they've had over the years either. Underneath the deck, there is backing support of two small squares of 1/4" or possibly 3/8" plywood (I'll have to go look again). One square for each screw holding the cleat in, then a small washer and nut tying it all together. At first inspection this seemed OK, but now that I think about all of the weight of that boom being tied to that one cleat for support, I'm not so sure. I've never seen anyone else's Mac, just the pics of mods you find here and there. So I don't know if this is how it came from the factory, or if the PO did it. Do you guys know how thick the deck is at the bow and if there is or was some type of wooden backup either glassed in or just placed beneath the bow cleat like mine is? I'm guessing there is a layer of plywood sandwiched between two (hopefully strong) layers of glass at that point, but I'm not exactly sure. Have any of you guys checked on yours to see what you have and felt confident with it's strength? Or have you swapped your old cleat out for a new cleat, possibly a metal one, or another type of fastener to support that line from the MLS?

Looking at mine, my first thoughts were that it would be OK for now, but cannot be sure. Temporarily, for backup, I could attach an additional support line to the MLS pole and run it to another point at the bow of the boat, maybe attaching one end of a rope or strap to the pole, then basically making a big loop - running it down through the bow eye or to the trailer somehow, and back up to attach the other end to the pole, holding it secure for backup and taking some strain off of the original support line and bow cleat. Bad idea? OK temporarily in a pinch? Let me know what you think. I always planned on putting in some sort of back up support line and point to attach to anyway, just for added safety and peace of mind. But if I'm taking the boat this weekend, I just don't have time right now to do it permanently, the way I want to.

As for the bow cleat itself, I could cut a new piece of plywood (3/8" or even 1/2", a good bit larger than the two little squares that are there now, varnish it, then seal it in place. Then probably get two larger SS washers and stronger lock nuts. That would be a quick easy fix if you guys think it's necessary. I could also cut a square of aluminum, stainless, or galvanized metal plating and drill holes for the bolts to go through and either use only that, or use that in addition to the plywood backing, to sandwich it all together. That is actually what I plan to do next month to secure a metal cleat there instead, hopefully strengthening and securing it once and for all. (unless, of course, you guys have some better ideas) I've read of guys cutting their plywood backing and glassing it in, but is that necessary if you use a good marine varnish, polyurethane, sealant, Cetol, etc? By the way, what do you guys recommend as the best stuff for sealing and finishing wood for marine use?

One last question/concern I have for now is the mast base or "mast step" itself, and how it's secured in your boats and what type of backing/support you use for strengthening it up underneath. I know I've read of someone cutting a stainless plate and securing it to the underside of the deck beneath the mast base for backup and attaching the compression post to it as well. Possibly a good project for later. But for now, I want to make sure what I have is strong enough to work until I can make something better. My Mac 25 came with 4 bolts securing the original mast step. On the underside, the 4 bolts were backed by two small pieces of plywood, pressed against the carpeted head liner, and secured with no washers and I can't remember if the nuts were even lock nuts or not. When I replaced the stock mast base with the new hinged plate from the Mac MLK, I had to drill I believe two different holes, because they didn't line up with the holes where the old mast step had mounted. I sealed the holes and sealed the new mast base. On the underside of the deck, I was able to back up two of the bolts with a piece of plywood, just as it was before. But on the other two bolts, there is no room to place a piece of plywood for backing because the bolts are too close to the compression post and another bolt and bracket that secure the compression post to the deck (cabin top) - not sure exactly how you guys refer to it, but you get the point. So those two bolts that secure the front end of the mast base are backed by bigger washers than what it had before and good lock nuts, tightened directly against the headliner (cabin top). I know there is plywood between the two layers of fiberglass, but I believe the headliner carpet is glued directly to the fiberglass, with no other support besides the plywood in between the inner and outer shells. Is this strong enough? Or should there be some other type of backing support there on the bottom side? I've read that some other older macs have plywood secured to the cabin ceiling and then the carpet headliner glued to that. Just curious what some of you have, especially on the Mac 25's. I've seen pictures where guys had no backing support at all, just bolts with washers and nuts tightened against the ceiling. So I'm wondering how mine is really supposed to be set up, if it should have at least some sort of backing whether it be metal plating or just plywood. I'm interested IF and how some of you have set up, backed up, reinforced the area where your mast step bolts tighten underneath the deck. For the time being, I may cut a small strip of thin metal plate for now to reinforce the two bolts where I can't fit plywood backing. And if necessary, later on completely redo the whole area beneath the mast step and between the compression post with a nice stainless plate.

Just interested in what you guys think and/or have done yourselves. As I said, I'm just looking for the easiest yet safest way to deal with these things for now (and of course, easy and safe don't always go hand in hand, so that's why I'm asking and hoping some of you guys would have some good experience, advice, or criticism on this. As always, it's all welcome. Any additional input from another's experience or point of view can always be helpful, especially for anyone else in the future who is bound to run across the same thing and have similar questions. That being said, I apologize if any of this has already been covered elsewhere. I have looked but haven't found exactly the info. I had hoped for.

Ive reached the wonderful age where I can start the mast off the crutch by hand and 11 year-old Caitlin pulls it up from the front hatch with the halyard....

I purchased the latest mast raising pole/kit from DOWSAR Marine (Macgregor distributor for Eastern Canada) and the mast step and deck straps from BWY. I installed it all on my 1979 MacGregor (25). I added an aluminum backing plate on the front cleat (it only had #10 screws with small backing washers). To find the correct location for the baby stays, I installed the mast bail at the same height as the gin pole and then measured the stay location with the mast on the crutch as well as upright in the vertical position. To install the mast step I simply used the large washers supplied (~1.25 inch). The system works well, the hardest part is moving the mast into position (still a two person job) but perhaps with an improved crutch design (a roller?) I could make the whole process a single handed operation. One thing to watch for is that when winching up the mast the rope tends to wrap up on itself and if the stack gets too large and the rope slips down, the mast will drop down a bit which can be very unnerving!