MacGregorSailors.com

Hi,
I am brand new to this forum and I am seeking some straight answeres from Macgregor owners. After many years of power boating I am on the brink of buying a brand new Macgregor 26M. I am not a rev head by any means but I want an engine that will easily push the boat with four adults with power to spare if I need it. Because of this, I have set my mind on a 75HP four stroke as I have had four strokes in the past and am sold on them. I have contacted the Mac factory to ask them if this would be a safe combination. I am fully aware what their brochure and video states regarding fitting engines up to 60HP only. However, after hearing that some people have much larger engines fitted I am quite confused. Macgregor will not give a straight answer about what would happen only to say that they recommend a maximum of 60HP but they know that many people have fitted larger ones. They did not actually support fitting larger engines and they did not actually condemn it. I spoke to one outboard fitter who claimed that he was an ex registered Macgregor approved fitter and that he certainly would not fit a 75HP because the transom might rip off. Please tell me what you think.

Secondly, after reading the safety instructions, they have left me with the impression that without ballast the boat can be very delicate and dangerous. Again I contacted the factory about sensible powering in calm conditions without ballast and again I did not get a straight answer. They told me in one breath to always fill her up but in the video, they seem to be water skiing and twisting and turning without ballast. I would certainly never dream of sailing without ballast but I also accept that I may on some occaisions be powering most of the time for whatever reason. I am ex navy and I fully understand that the sea does not suffer fools gladly and I know how dangerous it can be. I also understand the workings of weight distribution and the fundamentals of small craft handling. Could someone please tell me if I can power this boat at around 15 to 18 MPH without ballast with a reasonable level of safety in calm inland conditions, or is the boat as unstable without ballast as the instructions lead one to believe. I would really appreciate some straight answers. I base my questions on the fact that I am never going to drive like an idiot and I will not overload or travel at maximum speed in choppy seas or bad weather.
Many thanks
JJan

In answer to your first question, no, the transom won't 'rip off' with a 75... we have folks here with 90+ on there and it hasn't. That being said, most folks who up-rate the power on their Mac do so prudently and install reinforcements in the transom - do a search on 'transom reinforcement' and you'll find several threads on this.

As to your second question, you can definitely power up to full speed with no ballast, and take turns just fine. Just use prudence... if the surface starts to get really nasty or you have a lot of passengers, it's smart to fill it. Also smart to keep your weight as low in the boat as you can... lots of folks up on deck can cause an imbalance. Oh, and never, NEVER go fast, or even close to fast, with the rudders or centerboard down, even a little... pull up all the fins before you crank up the HP.

jjan, there is a recent post in performance and tuning called Repower, you might find some useful info there also.

Jjan,

Hi & welcome.
A 75 is fine - as is somewhat higher, just don't be a fool

I fully understand that the sea does not suffer fools gladly and I know how dangerous it can be. I also understand the workings of weight distribution and the fundamentals of small craft handling.

But since you're considering powerplants that would void your "new boat warrantee", I'd try and find a newer used model, or with the motor I want, mods I want, or factor in a repower. The warrantee won't be an issue, as there won't be one.

Ballast use calls again for common sense and loading. Remember though, Ballast is either Fully In or Fully Out. It's the sloshing around middle ground that could spoil your day. Rough weather I put the ballast in - or stay home- My preference.

They recommend via the brochure whenever there's 4 or more to put in ballast for CYA purposes. It's still stable unballasted - but don't jump around like an idiot on the monkey bars. Yes, you can power this boat at around 15 to 18 MPH without ballast with a VERY reasonable level of safety in calm inland conditions. - And have a lot of fun doing it

Happy Boating,
-Gaz

I purchased an '06 M, 50hp Etec. last Nov. For the past 3 yrs. I have followed this board and all the advice posted. I was raised around power boats (12-24ft) since I was a kid. With that being said I can state that the Mac is an excellent handling/tracking and safe boat. I will tell you there is a considerable difference between operating a power boat and a sail boat under power or sail. You have to pay close attention to the use of the rudders and center board. They add an amazing amount of control under power at low/hull speeds. Above 7mph it's boards up. You can add a few inches of center above 7mph to improve tracking. At planing or semi planing speeds the boat will track under power.

With regard to ballast the above advice is dead accurate.

I followedf the comments on this board for the past 3yrs. and the first time I put it in the water I felt as if I had owned the boat for years. With the proper use of boards under power the boat tracked like it was on rails. I have docked with 25mph winds and current with little difficulty. The boat has a high freeboard and definitely moves around under wind and current so it takes some patience and experience getting it up to the dock. Sailnet has some excellent videos on docking techniques with the use of spring lines, be sure to study them.

Post your address there may be a member that will take you out. I started at ground 0 so I all I had was the this board for a teacher. The members here are great teachers and I certainly would not have had the quick,safe and fun start with out them.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the OB available. Pick the brand where you can get serviced. Had I purchase new I wouild have most likely went 4 stroke. Knowing what I know now about the Etec there is no way I would go 4 stroke. They are zero maintenance motors, handle 14in. prop, no oil or filter to change. They run very clean, no smoke.

FYI if you buy used. As part of your survey take the motor to a Etec dealer for a diagnostic. It's awesome. They can hook up their computer and you get a complete operation history, printed in graph form. The report is multipage and will tell you if the motor ever over heated, over reved, and how many times, how many operating hours. The best part is the full page bar chart of run time / RPM and 1K increments. My motor had 49hrs. the bar chart had a tall bar at 1K and virtually no activity at the remaining rpm marks. That verified what the previous owner told me. He was a sailor and essentially used the motor at less than hull speed to get it out of harbor. So bottom line the report confirmed that I purchased a 2yr engine with 49hrs no over heats, no over rev due to cavitation or improper prop selection, and very low power use.

Perhaps I haven't pushed the hull hard enough but so far I haven't epxperience any hull twist or longitudinal flex. The boat is light but very stiff.

Go for it you will never regret the experience of sailing.

Hi Everyone who replied,
At last some straight answers which I really appreciate and value as being straight from the horses mouth. I will read each reply again,study them and take onboard all the advice that has been kindly given. Thank you all for your patience and for not making me feel like a twit as well as educating me to the fact that the Macgregor seems to be a lot safer than those safety instructions lead me to believe, with common sense obviously.
Many thanks again
jjan

I don't know which 75hp you are looking at, but you will find many, many Macs out there with the Suzuki 70 4 stroke. You don't say where you are located, but the dealer up here in Seattle has been authorized to install 70hp motors by the factory and has been putting them on new M's for years with the full factory warranty still in force. See http://www.bwyachts.com/Engine%20Choices.htm If you happen to be in the Northwest, contact Blue Water Yachts and they will be happy to fill you in on all the details of their factory authorized 70hp motor installations.

I happen to have a Tohatsu 70 (with a few special parts inside that turn make it have even more power) on my X installed by BWY, with no extra transom reinforcements, and no problems at all. The M transom (and entire hull) is actually built heavier than an X hull.

As to the ballast, these boats are designed to be operated under power with empty ballast. The M even has permanent ballast in the form of a big hunk of poured resin around the daggerboard trunk that an X never had.

I have close to 2,000 Nautical miles on mine in the 9 years we have owned it and 95+% of that is under power with no ballast. In no way at any time has the boat been 'delicate' or 'dangerous' in this configuration. The boat is perfectly safe under power without ballast, at any speed in any conditions. We cruise with my family of 5 on board and I have full confidence that the manners of the boat will never put them in danger. We've been out in some very rough conditions at times and the boat is very predictable and easy to handle as long as you operate it with appropriate prudence. I only put ballast in when under power if the seas are big, 4'-6' and closely spaced. Without ballast in these conditions at speeds over 4 knots the light boat will tend to launch off the crests and slam down in the troughs. Having ballast in will keep the hull in the water better and let you get better speed at 5-6 knots. In those conditions going faster is not prudent, nor comfortable.

We've been out for hours with no ballast pulling tubes, knee boards and skiers on the lake at WOT and repeatedly slam the helm hard over to turn tight donuts and crash through the wake as we whip the tube at the end of the rope with out any bad behavior from the boat at all.

The only time you have to be more careful is when the ballast is in a partially full state. One time in the past 9 years we had the boat give a uncomfortable roll going through a wake as we were slowly powering (5 knots) and filling the tank. This was certainly a case of the weight in the tank shifting unpredictably when the wake initiated the roll motion and the water accentuated it. When ever possible I would recommend filling the tank when stationary. We also often dump ballast while under way, but this has never resulted in an issue. When doing this you are at 10-12 knots with the bow high and there is a lot of form stability as the water drains out the valve at the back.

As I said, the boat is made to be operated under power with empty tanks and being able to do so is a big part of what makes a Mac different from all the other boat choices out there. You can choose to be extra conservative as some here are, or you can take full advantage of all the modes a Mac offers. It can be a light un-ballasted speed boat that with a big enough engine can plane, it can be a heavy semi-displacement powerboat that will go through all conditions, or it can be a ballasted sailboat. (I won't touch the 4th mode which is a light un-ballasted sailboat, this I think is not prudent, but some have operated the boat that way as well.)

Here is the straight non exaggerated experience with my which is suppose to be slower then a that you plan on buying. I have a old 50hp Honda 4 cycle engine on my and I have taken 4 200lbs plus fellow Iraqi war veterans out fishing on the Chesapeake Bay and without ballast reached 14mph with full drinking water tanks and 24 gallons of fuel, and about 3 gallons of Beer. I am a Helicopter Mechanic in the Army by trade and have been doing it for over 20 years and just like water air creates drag especially with speed. So yes I suspect you would be able to motor your boat with a 75hp engine at 17-18mph with a full crew and no ballast, however because of drag plan on doubling fuel consumption. Now to get around this since air does not create as much drag as water does you need to make the boat fly, in out words make it plain a good solid plain above the water which will be at about 21-22mph. In order to do that with a full crew you will need a 90HP Etec or equalivent engine like a Tohatsu 90Hp TLDI engine, or a really big 4 stroke like one guy on this sight has a 145hp Suzuki engine on his . As far as being stable with empty ballast tanks remember this term (Boat Speed). Boat
Speed is your state of mind and personal physical capabilities. When planning, transitioning from one mission design series to another (Power to Sail and Back) slow down use a check list. If you do this you will find you will not have to be Superman leaping over your Admiral and letting the sheet lines loose, pulling rudders up, or centerboard up to keep from rolling over. Smooth surface no ballast is quit stable but fill tanks before not during when things look like they are going to turn rough.

Hello and welcome

Video of Merc 75 4 stroke, on 26M, with transom wedges and 1/4 inch aluminum backing plates for all 4 bolts.

Ballast tank empty

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u119 ... 010033.flv

Cheers

G

like beene......
I believe the Suzuki 70 was a perfect choice, in my opinion the wedges are a must be. Lightly laded (3 normal persons no ballast I can reach22mph and feel absolutely safe. Waterskiing and wakeboarding with that setup no problem.
Hans

When BWY installs the Suzuki 70 on an M they use transom wedges as well.

Just to clarify a statement above, the M is a faster sailboat than a X. The rounder aft hull sections and turn at the transom along with the daggerboard make it faster.

The X is a faster powerboat than an M. The X is lighter without ballast, and it has a flatter aft hull section and a sharper turn at the transom. This allows it to get a cleaner break from the water at the transom. The rounder aft hull sections and transom area of the M that gives it an advantage under sail hinders the boat under power.

Dont get hung up on vs

Its the hull colour that matters the most (white hulls have won the Edgartown MA race every year it has been held)

Hi
I am a new Mac owner....Comming from a big boat I have to say the Mac has limitations. It does not like bad weather. As far as the video on the Mac web site. Thats with a stripped boat. I have a 60..... I would like the 90....Second.....Buy used..... there are good deals out there right now. 2005 or newer. You will get more for your money used.

The factories answers are liability based, can't say I blame them!!

I use ballast sailing (always because I am typically single handing), when sleeping, when the beers add up and I lose my sea legs , when there's hard wind trying to dock, when it's choppy, and of course when we tie off to buddies power boats to hang out and I and were sick of the stinkpots waves making our beer spill!!!

I grew up in cuddy's always around 20 ft or bigger. I was looking on craigslist for a cuddy when I came across a MacGregor, dang what a neat boat! I was skeptical like you, read all the trash talk on other forums and read the manuals posted here on this site, read all the forums I could handle but I still honestly didn't like the water ballast idea (not that I knew better but I was listening to the lead keelers) and the "roll over potential." My wife and I decided to take a look at a few at least to see the layout and what it could offer (after all we can trailer it if weather gets bad). Finally I found one with a big motor, checked it out and I had to get it... First time out I realized it rides just like the boat's I grew up on only- it has a truly usable cuddy (that I compare to a nice camper)

So after having mine for awhile now, here's what I like; when weather gets bad fill the ballast drop center board and go watch the storm from the comfort of your v-berth (you'll be the only one on the water when the storm passes), when the winds kick up instead of your day being ruined at the lake you can raise the sails and have the time of your life, when the wind is zero and the sail boats are watching from the expensive marina while you're wake-boarding behind yours, when you get a whim to hitch up and go to the next state because it might be "cool" you can (other sail boats in the marina still!). When you're diesel truck is in the shop and you still want to go out you find out that your wife's little FJ cruiser pulls like a dream (try that with a comparable power boat!)! When you set the anchor, put up the roof, put the "tarp" over you're mainsail and drink corona's in the cockpit while watching the sun set, knowing all along that you are only feet away from bed (and a potty!)

Well I hope this may help, I know I'd of never bought mine without this forum so I'm trying to return the favor to the next guy! I do recommend a 90 hp (Nissan) but if I had money to spend I would have that new Etec! Check there site to see why!

Steve

All the answers you see here look good. Don’t worry about yours speed with or without ballast they all are pretty close to what the manufacture says. However the stuff about launching and sailing in 20min if that is you biggest reason for getting this boat you will be sorry. I can now lunch and be sailing in 20min finally this year on my: macx: because I am renting a slip. This boat is transportable by trailer but to be able to launch like cuddy and be fully operational in 20min is laughable to say the least. If you do some modifications like quick release front fairlead you might get it down to 50min.