MacGregorSailors.com

Hi
wanted to post a question re. a smaller engine
on a powersailor inorder to reduce weight and
improve sailing ability. I am thinking of an X or
M in the future and with tweaking a sailplan for
optimum performance to weather and upwind,
having a 25hp Merc on the back for motoring safety
without planing ability (don't really need it)
and maintaining strong motoring in channels
with currents and headwinds.
Looking for comments from Mac sailors with similar
ideas. now where talking...
Mark Segala
M21
Toronto
Great Lakes

My first 1997 26X I bought without a motor. I had a Yamaha 10 hp 4 stroke which was made for Sailboats. It was more than adequate to move the 26X. I motored to Canada (about 60 miles) at full throttle at about 6 mph. Coming home from Canada, I encountered Heavy winds and steep choppy waves which the 10 hp could not keep my bow into the waves. I put up reefed Sails, small jib and was able to MotorSail close hauled, but going Nowhere fast, I turned around, found quiet anchorage and waited for calmer weather.

Without a bigger motor, you will not be able to Plane to dump the balllast, which is a bonus when its calm and you want to motor. I dont know if your 25 HP could Plane or lift the bow enough to dump the water ballast. Motoring without Ballast will save fuel...

Personally I Love my 26X motor Sailor, and I am spoiled with the big motor, but if I was not going to put a big motor on a Sailboat, I would buy a Sailboat with better Sailing Capabilites than a Mac26M or 26X.
I follow the other Sailboats and I am usually in Last place. When I had my 26D I was usually in the top 5.

Mark - Ontario is tide-less of course, so you dont have to worry about currents, just weather. I cruise mostly on the Cape, but have sailed out of Wilson NY several times. Ive never taken the Merc over 3000 rpm on Ontario. If you can sail in a way that you can avoid weather, and most importantly, wait it out, a smaller motor will suit you well.

Both the X and the M are designed to be sailed with a 50hp motor on the back. All you are doing is giving up the Power features of the Mac Powersailor. If you only want a trailerable sailboat there are many choices out there that are better sailboats than even a X or M with no motor. Get a classic Mac 26, they will sail circles around an X or M.

I don't think there will be any perceptible change in the sailing performance by putting a 25 on the back of an X. Likewise, I noticed no decrease in sailing performance when I changed my 50hp to my 90hp.

Perhaps an Americas Cup racing sailor could tell the difference but I doubt you could tell the difference in day to day sailing.

Duane Dunn, Allegro wrote:
I don't think there will be any perceptible change in the sailing performance by putting a 25 on the back of an X. Likewise, I noticed no decrease in sailing performance when I changed my 50hp to my 90hp.
.

I also noticed no decrease in Sailing Performance when I sold my 10 HP and Installed a 50 HP.

I was still in Last Place, but with the 50Hp, I could forfiet the Race, turn on the motor and Zoom to the head of the pack and get the first anchorage at the next port..

Mark - I suggest you could put on a 20-30 HP range motor which you can install yourself, saving some bucks, and if you decide you want to go up, you could sell it used for something like 1/2 price at least, especially with transferable warranties on some brands.

I have a 1997 Evenrude 30 hp on the back of my X and it works pretty fine.
The 30 is capable in getting the boat up on the plane (no ballast) and will cruse at around 11 or 12 knots and just over 13 at wot. With a full family of 4 it does struggle to drain the ballast completely so I use a portable air pump to blow air into the tanks to help it drain (with my son and I it will drain without issue). I can tow the kids around in a tow toy just like all good powersailors have tried at least once.
If I cruse and keep the boat down at hull speed I find fuel usage to be great however it does take a big hit if I get it planing. I am thinking that a slightly bigger engine will mean the engine is working as hard and hopefully improve the fuel economy at speed.
Just remember if you go for a smaller engine it will work if you keep the weight down. I know the more gear I have in the harder it is to get on the plane and having sailed in other macs with 50 and 60 hp on the back they suffer far less from that.

I bought a 1999 26X a couple months ago with a 9.8HP Tohatsu.
If felt under powered. The MacGregor is a high profile boat...so the wind pushes it even with no sails up.
Being a failry flat bottem boat, the current has a lot of surface area to work on too.
Anyway...my boat's in the shop today getting a 2010 50HP Tohatsu installed. Electric start, with power tilt/trim.
For me, a classical sailer, it's odd for me to say but, more power means more safety.
Goodluck.

Tex

p.s. love the 26X...but like the upgrades on the 26M. More V hull, center board....60HP E-Tech Evinrude.

thanks for the informative replies.
I have seen X's in the Port Credit area,
one with a 40 Johnson, another for sale
some time ago with a 15 merc. etc.
I think its not uncommon to find these boats
with smaller motors perhaps temporary motors.
Plus ,not having much ability to dump the ballast
tanks while underway could also be a blessing
in disguise.
Still need to go for a sail on an X or M in order to
see its sailing performance for myself and determine
if I could live with it.
cheers
Mark

markaram wrote:.....not having much ability to dump the ballast
tanks while underway could also be a blessing
in disguise.

..... and it could be a curse if you only manage to half empty it.......dangerous, unstable.

I had 30HP 2 stroke Nissan and I was winning our annual race, than it died and I installed 50HP Tohatsu, also 2 stroke, and I am still winning the race. Bbut I am much happier with bigger engine. For starters I can empty the ballast completely and much faster, engine is much quieter at my cruising speed which remained 6kt under power (because i like powering with all boards down). My fuel consumption significantly improved with bigger engine and powering in heavy seas is more comfortable as engine is not suffering while beating the waves. I did noticed that the sailing performance is down very little to nothing in strong winds but more noticeable in light winds. If i really want to sail that little bit better i than shift some weight forward to compensate for the bigger engine. And than I stopped doing it because it is too much work.

My conclusion is that I would never go below 30 hp as emptying the ballast in the water is very important to me. I sail without ballast in light winds. 30 was marginal allowing me to empty the ballast but it took more time and I had at least 100 lb of water left in the ballast tank (more on choppy water). Benefits of the bigger engine (50) are overwhelming small decrease in performance in light wind compared with 30. If i am doing it again I would go for 50 from the beginning.


Zoran

We have a 40hp Force outboard on the back of Imagine, pushes us along without any problems. If something ever happened to the motor and the leg was still usable I would have a good look at replacing the oiler with an electric motor using the original leg, we sail more than motor and am happy to dump ballast when going on the trailer.

Glenn

There are many who use small motors. However, the Mac is designed to have a heavy big motor on the back. I doubt a smaller motor gives any sailing advantage. It is a POWERSAILOR not a sail boat. Honestly, if sailing performance is your concern, I'd look at a different boat. Small motor or large, the Mac is not a great performance sail boat. I would use it as it was designed, to have at least a 50 hp motor. I have never heard anyone in a pinch (bad weather etc.) say "That big motor was overkill."


--Russ

For any thinking of buying a small motor new, be aware that merc and yamaha both have the big foot/hi thrust versions of 9.9, 25 and so on, which would probably work better on the heavy mac than the other small engines, some of which were designed for speedboats

for 4 strokes, for overall quality and satisfaction, Honda ranks highest among outboard EFI four-stroke engine manufacturers,
performing particularly well in starting ease, shifting smoothness and
reliability. Yamaha follows Honda in the rankings, while Suzuki ranks third in
the segment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRel ... RN20090212

I have very limited experience on sailing and experimenting with M, but for X, 150 lb less weight at stern, or by that matter 150 lb more weight at bow will make a noticeable difference in sailing in light winds, less noticeable in high winds when sailing with ballast. It is just a matter of preferred usage and advantage and disadvantage of small versus big engine.

Zoran