MacGregorSailors.com

Recent discussions on thru-hulls and bilge pumps got me thinking - and a few questions.

Primarily in relation to the , where do you put bilge pumps and what kind?

Issues start with there are really about 6 compartments if you are concerned with water depth below 4-5 inches: these are the three behind the short bulkhead behind the batteries (separated by the ballast tank feeds) and the three in front of the bulkhead (separated the same). The area directly in front of the batteries probably the lowest. If pumps should be located in each compartment that can hold water - that makes 6 pumps I want to be able to pump out water that comes from the rudder posts in rough weather as well as taking care of more serious events. I do not want to buy 6 pumps. Also, consider that this bulkhead is penetrated in several places for wiring and plumbing - in that case, one could say there are only three compartments that can hold water.

Then, there is the issue of what kind of pump. An article recently referenced stated the author would only use Rule and Jabsco. I have a Rule automatic pump in a house sump and the on/off every couple of minutes is annoying (and really annoying if there is just a little bit of water). I looked at the Whale pumps and the low profile models look real interesting http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/produc ... art-Family - but I would hate to buy 6 I would think that the low profile design would be ideal for mounting in the

Where would you mount two pumps? Would you mount three or more? Three: I was thinking across just in front of the battery (one directly in front of the battery and one next to each ballast tank passage). Or would you just put two in the center?

I'm in cold water and get a fair amount of condensation, and keep a large sponge ($1.99) and twice over eight months remove the two to three cups of water that accumulate in the bilge (10-15 min). i also put a few drops of bleach in with the water before i soak and give a wipe down to give everything that clean smell. Wipe, soak and squeeze into a bucket.
Maybe I'm cheap, but the guy next to me (54 ft cabin cruiser) has eight pumps and they failed this summer...over night his bow dropped two feet into the water, and the reset was in the bilge in the bow of the boat. He was not looking forward to crawling through his partially submerged bilge to get them working again

I Have 3 pumps.. Why? In Part....I got such a good deal on them I just couldn't resist.. I was under some pressure from fellow boaters who said....You own a 26' Cabin Cruiser..( that happens to have a sail ) Your going MILES out into Lake Michigan and IF something happens You have a sponge.. Humm OK I add a Bilge pump and my water problems Really began.... I didn't know at the time I needed to have an Air Lock.. Once the ISSUE was discovered some insisted they didn't have Air Locks.. Hummmm Some did and others??? Kind Of Did .. Purely due to the routing of the egress hose.... I changed out the Manual to a float activated and that had issues and I changed that out to a water sensing unit.. I , over time and with getting just abut anything I wanted from West Marine for abut 60% off, ended up with 2 Auto sensing and 1 manual.. Please remember why I might have , had some concerns about a hull failure.. The Joke at the time was ? Why do we have Carpet on our inside walls? Because otherwise people could see us through the hull at night with the lights on.. Not Funny!! But it all but seemed to be true.. I had owned 3 other boats and NONE had anywhere on the hull that was as thin as the Mac was at the free board ..Hummmm Once I began some more serious mods, I saw first hand just how thick the hull really was and for sure , it is below the water line.. It is true however Just below the rub rail and in line with the windows the hull is IMHO VERY THIN..... DONT ASK!! OOOPPPSSS SHXXXX!
Bottom Line for ME.. IF have an issue for whatever Reason I can at least evacuate 4500 Gallons an hour or 75 gallons a minute...1.25 gallons per second!!Try doing that with a sponge! 4500 Gallons an Hour May Not Keep me dry but its going o be a LOT dryer than you with a sponge.....Will I ever need it? I have two anchors too .. I have spent Over $100,000.00 over the last 20 years on all kinds of Insurance policies and so far have collected less than $500!!! BUT! Yea that's how most of us feel.. That's why they call it Insurance..
Back On Track...
I Have an 05 M , X's may be different! I found water was getting trapped in "sections" of The Bilge....If you have water in the V berth it really should drain all the way back to the transom.. Open EVERYTHING up and look.. Hummmm EXCEPT IT COULDNT! Due To?? Intent or Sloppy layup? I found water was indeed trapped from moving aft.. I took my flex drive drill extension and drilled out the Issues! NOW water from the V Berth and all the way back to the Cabin Ladder ... will actually flow... to the back, when ever I am under power... So as I said I have 3 - 1 each side ( Galley and aft dinette seat ) and under the ladder next to the Original Battery location.. To each his own .. I may have a lot of stuff on my boat that some or many may think is STUPID..
I have 4 LEDS above for forward dinette seat that ask? Hey DUMMY ! Did you mean to leave .. The Spreader lights on ? How about The Anchor light and Oh Yea what about the steaming / running lights.. Another tells me From the cockpit ,that for some reason?? I Have 1 or more bilge pumps running..
To each his own..

The kind of bilge pumps on our boats aren't useful if you are holed....you need a direct drive type p ump to make headway for this mishap.

I have a main bilge pump on my under the cooler, and two aux pumps in the outer bilge. The main is triggered by a float switch, while the stringer pumps pump only on manual. Sailing protocol is pump the stringers to dryness (usual state) and let the main run as needed on the switch.

I still have a slow seep of seawater from my compression post repair on my centreboard trunk.

Cat Then you basically have what I have .. somewhere around 2000 to maybe 4000 gallons an hour.. We Kind of have... 2.25" egress If you have a 4" ingress thats a huge hole.. You wont keep up!!! But It Will Buy You Some Time.. How Much time? I dont know.. but you'll be at the helm with those 3 pumps working the best they can and you doing all you can.. top side.. But hey we have discussed a hose failing.. Those are most often 3/4 " I have 3 - 3/4" pumps keeping up with that easily.. as I re-read your post you say we dont have direct drive pumps? What do you consider a Direct Drive Pump ? I am confused.. Our Pumps are ? Direct drive turbine fin ..

Catigale wrote:The kind of bilge pumps on our boats aren't useful if you are holed....you need a direct drive type pump to make headway for this mishap.

I have a main bilge pump on my under the cooler, and two aux pumps in the outer bilge. The main is triggered by a float switch, while the stringer pumps pump only on manual. Sailing protocol is pump the stringers to dryness (usual state) and let the main run as needed on the switch.

I still have a slow seep of seawater from my compression post repair on my centreboard trunk.

Since the M has zero thru hulls, I really don't see a huge need for a bilge pump. I have a sponge for what leaks in. Since all the water comes from above the water line, the ideal solution is to find the source and fix it.

The X has that trunk fitting thingy that justifies a pump/switch. I would have one if I had an X.

Since there are "compartments" my best emergency solution would be a portable pump/hose that I could put in place if/when needed. Keep it stowed and ready. Have it on a long 12v cord and host that could be put anywhere.

As mentioned, if you hit something to put a hole in your boat, a tiny bilge pump is not going to save you. It may help if you are in crazy seas with water coming over the transom getting into your boat.

I should note the sponge is for what little water builds up over time. In case of emergency I do carry a 'required by law' manual bilge pump and zero thru hulls.
Posted this on the thru hull thread http://www.boatus.com/foundation/guide/boat_7.html but applies here too.

Divecoz wrote: .... The Joke at the time was ? Why do we have Carpet on our inside walls? Because otherwise people could see us through the hull at night with the lights on.....

Darn, that's funny Divecoz - near choked on my breakfast cereal. Maybe the blue hulls reduce this privacy concern.
With regard to bilge drying, I'm a very cautious guy, so I have about 4(!) sponges distributed throughout the various bilges.
But in all seriousness, Kittiwake's bilges are almost always dry. I have occasionally found small amounts of water in the port bilge aft of the battery bulkhead (and wondered if it had come from the sink drain or rainwater from say the windows or the aft steering linkage thru-hull etc etc ... never finding any obvious culprit). Kittiwake is a recent 26M (2010) and we get lots of rain in coastal BC; so based on the perhaps-greater bilge water others have reported, I wonder whether MacGregor has changed something simple such as the rubber sock around the engine control cables where they emerge from the hull: if so, it would be nice to know what it was.
Kittiwake

Divecoz wrote:I Have 3 pumps.. Why?. IF have an issue for whatever Reason I can at least evacuate 4500 Gallons an hour or 75 gallons a minute...1.25 gallons per second!!Try doing that with a sponge! 4500 Gallons an Hour May Not Keep me dry but .

I have a sponge and a pail so its going to be a LOT dryer than kittywake with just a sponge..... !


All I need now is an ice pick and a shovel!
Q1

Yup, I use a big sponge and pail too, the only times I get water in the bilges is after heavy rainfall, it leaks topside somewhere. As for those manual pumps, has anyone tested them...??? I have a black one, Seadog brand I think, what a piece of crap! It has a short hose for one end and a long ten foot hose for the other, I guess it depends on where you want to sit when operating it. I recommend the long piece goes below while you with the pump and short end sit up in the cockpit so that all the water that leaks from the fittings runs into the cockpit and out the aft engine well. I hate the piece of crap and hope I never have to depend on it or else I will sink. Does someone know of a better hand pump that does not leak at every fitting including the pump handle shaft. I cannot believe they make these things so useless. I am not interested in spending mega bucks for a complex electric system, just want to keep it simple, easy and affordable.

I accumulate most of my water from condensation. We keep the boat pretty warm when we're on board. Also a little from the chainplates and some from the furnace exhaust which will easily be fixed when spring arrives.
Hey Terry. Hope your sailing season was a good one. I also have a crappy manual pump from west marine. I tried to use it once but it's a giant pos. as soon as it pressurized the hose it blows it off. That reminds me I was going to look into making that work.

A good kayak type hand pump and a 5 gallon bucket should take care of most problems with water in the boat.

I have a single rule 2000 wired to battery clips and a 20' length of clear vinyl tubing. I just put the pump where ever it needs to be and then run the hose out to the cockpit and run it until dry. I trailer, I'm in San Diego, which is pretty dry, and I've had zero issues with the boat taking on water so it works well to just have a portable pump and I can use the hose for other purposes.

Québec 1 wrote: .... I have a sponge and a pail so its going to be a LOT dryer than kittywake with just a sponge..... ! .... Q1

Not fair: easterners get all the fancy equipment ... and I just get a lousy package of cheap little sponges.
You know, yukonbob, maybe as you suggest, condensation explains a lot of the differences various colleagues see in bilge water.
Kittiwake

I was kinda curious about bilge pumps to handle the unexpected - I too have the familiar boat sponges but was curious about how people were planning for the situation when something happens a sponge (and for those really equipped - buckets) is not adequate.

So far, I have heard from a few what I expected - two small pumps in the outer bilges (manual or automatic) and a third in the center bilge in front of the battery. Also, make sure no obstruction preventing water moving for and aft.

Does anyone have experience with the new compact Whale pumps http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/produc ... art-Family?