wht y'all think

[Wayne nicol]

i know its not a Mac, but would love to hear what folk think of a center cockpit boat.
they seem to have a lot of appeal.
two separate "cabins",
a nice manageable cockpit, with the weight distributed well, not all the weight coming aft, when its a great day!
besides, who wouldn't want a boat with a "dog house "

[Wayne nicol]

wouldnt this be awesome as a mac option?
better weight distribution for sailing,
and with a nice tight Bimini over the cockpit, would make for a great outdoor sleeping area!

[NiceAft]

So, what is it?

Since Mac’s aren’t being made anymore, how’s there the potential for options.

Ray

[Wayne nicol]

its a dawson 26, but they are not built anymore.
i really think the center cockpit would have been a great option for a mac in the day!
thats certainly what i would have bought- if i had the choice.

Maybe , somewhere in the future , somebody will start making macs 26's again-
there were supposed to be 22's coming out, but i doubt that will ever happen.

[sailboatmike]

I really cant see how that is a option to X or a M.

Such small boats with center cockpits means you have a small front cabin and a small a dog house sized rear cabin or a very small cockpit and 2 medium sized dog houses.

I have been on many boats and nothing compares to the X and M in the 25 / 26 foot class from what I have seen for room and comfort and I can hardly see that hull planing along at 20knts.

If I was going to get a pure sail trailerable boat it would be a Austral 8 or a Noelex 25 both have small cabin space compared to the Mac but both are quick under sail, thats the trade off. I often have owners of Australs and Noelex's on board and they marvel at all the cabin space they are giving up for the little bit of extra performance under sail

[BOAT]

I sailed a 'mid-ships' back in the 70's - (called 'center - cockpit" now) on really big boats it's nice - in particular on big boats the "thing" was the 'Pilot House' - and even MacGregor made the 65 in the regular and the "Pilot House" - really, if you enclose your center cockpit that's what your creating: a 'Pilot House'. The owner of Coastal Recreation (one of Rogers friends) made a trailer boat that was 25 feet with a center cockpit and I got to sail it a few times. It's nice because your protected more from the weather and the aft cabin is usually pretty nice and big. They offer a lot of privacy if you have two couples on the boat instead of one or if you have kids.

I prefer the Pilot House on large boats because they are dry - but the drawback is dock handling - center cockpit or pilot house gets in the way of docking maneuvers and it makes the deck hard to manage. Still, on a large boat (or even a small one) if I were going to spend a lot of time out at sea the Pilot house would be my first choice and the center cockpit next over the rear cockpit because there is less weather. Some folks do get sea sick more in center cockpits.

MY biggest issue with the center cockpit was just trying to get the feel of the boat when trimming the sails - it does take some time to adjust to it - it's hard to look back and look front and try to figure out what the sails are doing - every think is backwards and I tended to misjudge the shape of the sail because I was looking at it backwards - you need to get used to it.

[Sumner]

.... on really big boats it's nice ..

I've been on some center cockpit boats in the yard where we have the Endeavour. I wouldn't want a center cockpit boat that was less than 37 foot and even those I wasn't in love with in most cases. It looks good on paper but it breaks the boat up a lot and you end up with smaller spaces and the boat doesn't seem as open below. On a Mac below you can see from the bow to basically the stern. That helps to make it feel larger than it is.



On larger boats to get access below the center cockpit with passages fore and aft the cockpit is raised higher than most boats and the boats have more windage and a small boat doesn't need anymore windage than it already has.

I'd say if it was a great idea we would of seen some of these boats succeed with a larger following. Still boats are a very personal thing so if one wants one, go for it,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[BOAT]

.... on really big boats it's nice ..

I've been on some center cockpit boats in the yard where we have the Endeavour. I wouldn't want a center cockpit boat that was less than 37 foot and even those I wasn't in love with in most cases. It looks good on paper but it breaks the boat up a lot and you end up with smaller spaces and the boat doesn't seem as open below. On a Mac below you can see from the bow to basically the stern. That helps to make it feel larger than it is.



On larger boats to get access below the center cockpit with passages fore and aft the cockpit is raised higher than most boats and the boats have more windage and a small boat doesn't need anymore windage than it already has.

I'd say if it was a great idea we would of seen some of these boats succeed with a larger following. Still boats are a very personal thing so if one wants one, go for it,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Yeah, I sort of agree with this - the boat needs to be pretty big to really warrant a center cockpit - I mean, really, we have been driving the boats from the back for a VERY very long time:



This was just the best way for the pilot to see the sails and drive and it's still the most preferable even today. But you do get hammered from the weather more doing it this way - but time has been a pretty good test of all options.

I myself like the pilot house enclosed because of weather and also because it allows you to walk from one cabin to the next without getting wet like in the MAC 65:



Doing this on a 26 foot boat would be kinda hard I think, but I dunno.

[Wayne nicol]

Mike, for sure, this is not a planing hull. it was just some pics i saw on a different thread, was just curious to see other folks thoughts on the concept in general.
like boat i saw the advantages for weather protection, and the way to better position the weight in the boat.
just curiosity thats all- i know it would never be a mac-reality.
i do think with a small doghouse- the bunks would still extend under the cockpit, but you guys are right- its hard to match the interior space vs length in the Macs.
now a mac with aproper pilothouse, that would be a thing- interior wheel helm........

[BOAT]

Mike, for sure, this is not a planing hull. it was just some pics i saw on a different thread, was just curious to see other folks thoughts on the concept in general.
like boat i saw the advantages for weather protection, and the way to better position the weight in the boat.
just curiosity thats all- i know it would never be a mac-reality.
i do think with a small doghouse- the bunks would still extend under the cockpit, but you guys are right- its hard to match the interior space vs length in the Macs.
now a mac with aproper pilothouse, that would be a thing- interior wheel helm........

Yup. an interior wheel helm would be really cool - the X boat has a better set up to do that than the M because the X boat has front windows that you can actually SEE out of! The front windows on the M boat are useless.

Still - I think it would be cool to pop the top on the M and add a window all the way around a raised hatch and drive from the inside - that would make the cold days so much better

[Tomfoolery]

The 53 ft [16 m] Amel Super Maramu masthead ketch the Delos folks sail is twice as long with twice the beam and nearly 10 times the weight (with no water ballast in) of our 26 ft boats. With a 15 ft [4.6 m] beam, there's plenty of room to walk along the starboard side passageway to the stern berth. In fact, there's a starboard bunk or two in that same passageway, with the main saloon to port.

But it's a passage maker, and the center cockpit is appropriate, IMO. Not so much on a little trailer boat, also IMO.

[Highlander]

One could remove his dodger canvas my "Dowsar Dodger" has zippers to allow it to b removed from it,s S/S frame allowing for the frame to b left mounted in either free standing mode or folded forward or rearward


Now one could buy a dodger hardtop made to snap-on fit the said frame
https://www.tartarooga.com/

then buy a windshield to fit
http://www.taylormarine.com/windshields/monaco.html

Ideally it would have to b shaped to the same configuration as the original dodger so as to also allow for the original mid-section & side panels to fit

A cheaper option might b a snap-on hard-top as per BOATS design made from molded marine plastic then make cut-outs for windows

J

[BOAT]

One could remove his dodger canvas my "Dowsar Dodger" has zippers to allow it to b removed from it,s S/S frame allowing for the frame to b left mounted in either free standing mode or folded forward or rearward


Now one could buy a dodger hardtop made to snap-on fit the said frame
https://www.tartarooga.com/

then buy a windshield to fit
http://www.taylormarine.com/windshields/monaco.html

Ideally it would have to b shaped to the same configuration as the original dodger so as to also allow for the original mid-section & side panels to fit

A cheaper option might b a snap-on hard-top as per BOATS design made from molded marine plastic then make cut-outs for windows

J

It is something I am very tempted to do but really, I think I am having illusions of grandeur - I mean - can i really consider taking my little 'boat' out across the Pacific into the middle of the oceans? And at MY age am I really ever going to do that kind of thing again? Let's face it - I'm not 19 years old anymore sailing with an entire pack of experience older sailors. It's just me now - and my little boat. As much as I miss those ocean passages I did in my youth I really can't come up with a responsible reason to do such a thing anymore - I think i will probably limit myself to the outer reaches of Cortez Bank and pretty much stay within 150 Nautical Miles of the coastline. And what is a MAC trailer boat? Really, this is not the way to cross and ocean.

THIS! is the way to cross and ocean:



Long and low and close to the surface with a ship that goes right under the waves like a submarine and tracks a straight line like a cutter from the days of old - THIS is how to cross an ocean:



High and dry in your warm pilot house sitting right over a galley stove perking your latest brew of Jamaican roasted bean and slicing right through 8 foot swells at 26 knots like a knife -

There is the RIGHT way, and the wrong way.

[sailboatmike]

IMHO the main reason that we can't / don't cross oceans in small boats is all about speed or the lack of it.

The slower you are the more risk involved, for example a 50Nm passage in a nice 40 footer would be around 8 hrs working that you can average about 6 knots at any point of sail and in most sea conditions, now that same trip on say a 26 foot boat would be around 10 hours, given a average speed of around 5knts at best.

This means you are exposed for a extra 2 hrs minimum of exposure over a mere 50Nm, now extrapolate that to a 24 hour passage, the 40 footer is going to cover over 144Nm, the 26 footer is going to struggle for 120Nm.

It may not seem like much but when the rubber hits the road it would be much nicer and safer to of covered those extra 24Nm and be sitting tied up in a marina than being still 24Nm away and knowing you are going to have to battle for another 5 hours to get in.

In theory we could sail to Tasmania, the longest hop between safe harbours is only 50Nm, yet very very few Trailer boats ever do it, just because 50Nm or 10hrs in Bass Strait is something you don't want to do, the weather is too variable and Bass Strait is one of the nastiest bits of water in the world. Some of you may remember the Sydney to Hobart a few years ago when half the fleet got smashed with many live lost and many 40 plus foot boats sinking, that was Bass Strait in all her glory

[DaveC426913]

The real showstopper for centre-cockpit boats:

How do you whiz off the transom?