MacGregorSailors.com

So, I started another thread to see what features people would want to see in a trailerable motor sailor with the ulterior motive of helping me decide on what I should go for in a purchase between an Orin 820, a 26X and a 26M. If people talked mostly about features found in, or easily modified to add to, a particular hull, then that helps sway me.

Today, I came across Swallow Yachts concept for a motor sailor. Their 70 hp outboard is sort of a mid-engine design with trim tabs to change the motoring pitch. There’s also a retractable bow sprit, carbon fiber mast, and water ballast with a swing keel. Slower motoring than a Mac, but probably a faster sail. Interior is unique.

Seems cool, since I am more sailing oriented, but I know my wife would prefer the higher motor speed (and lower price) of a Mac.

I have watched a couple of YouTube programs on the Swallow Yachts. They do seem to be similar to the "M" in interior layout and options like the sliding galley. The programs I watched did seem to indicate that setting up from a trailered position was a little more challenging than I think my X is, but that may have just been my impression. I found a price at one point, and they do look pretty expensive, way more than I paid for my '98 X in 2003. That is for sure. Of course, it is a little bit "oranges and apples" since the Mac boats are older and the Swallows are mostly newer. But, someone is going to fill the void that MacGregor/Tattoo has left, and I suspect it will be Swallow.

The Swallow is a cool boat design but they cost $86K!
https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews ... ro-cruiser

I just looked at some Swallow videos. It's a nice boat that appears to be well made. But it's MUCH more expensive.

Also, the center mount engine concerns me. I had a friend who had a Clipper Marine 30 with center-mounted outboard. It used a blower to vent the exhaust. The blower never could keep up with the exhaust and choked the motor. Now this thing has a Yamaha 70 which I assume would exhaust out the prop most of the time.

Sill, I can buy 4 Macs for the price of this boat.

I just don’t get it

This is just another Mac wannabe. It’s filling the void left by MacGregor’s closing, but there are still plenty of Mac’s out there to be had.

As Russ has pointed out;

Sill, I can buy 4 Macs for the price of this boat.

The Mac and the Swallow Coast 250 are two entirely different boats. Fit and finish, carbon fiber rig, motorized lead bulb keel, etc, all make the boat much more expensive. Hull trim tabs and center engine, with engine bay doors are major design changes from the "keep it simple and cheap" design philosophy of a Mac.

I love my Mac. But, if I had $90k that I could put in a shredder, I'd sure give the Coast 250 a look. I don't need 3 Macs. The Coast 250 is a design exercise in what a power sailer could be if you ELIMINATE THE COMPROMISES. I'm sure it has its quirks also, but it looks like a really nice boat. I would never be making a boat buying decision that included a Mac and a Coast 250 though. Being able to afford the Coast 250 puts you in a whole different group of alternatives.

My biggest concern would be; how hard is it to trailer? Looks like it might be considerably harder to setup and takedown the rig. Does anybody know how trailerable it is? That is one area that the Mac really shines.

I agree that the price tag on these puts it way out of my reach, and I am not in the market for a new boat of any kind. But, I think it is good to see that the concept of Macs (trailerable, motor-sailor capable of 15+ knots) is expanding. It can't help but increase the market for our boats over time and erode the sailing purist's discount of our "genre". As for price (assuming $90K is the list), I think it is easy (for me at least) to be caught in the time warp of when we made our original Mac purchases. I bought my '98X used in 2003 from the original owner who had already added just about every option you could want other than an autopilot (freshwater tankage, dual batteries, electric toilet and holding tank, full cockpit enclosure, dual axle trailer, instruments, Genoa, etc.). I felt good about his 22K asking price back then compared to the mid 30's for the new M's coming out. That was almost 17 years ago, though. I am, also, owner of a medium sized (26-ft interior) Puma travel trailer, (also bought used) so I subscribe to Trailer Life magazine. You see new comparable units advertised at 30K and up, and when you look at the 5th- wheel's you see units well over 100K. Then, there is the tow vehicle. A well equipped heavy duty pickup seems to be running higher than most home mortgages I have ever had---what 60-70K? More? I suspect that the reality out there for newbies looking to break into our type of boating is going to be looking at something in the neighborhood of these Swallow craft, if not that boat exactly. In the meantime, I will cheer for these guys and any others that will enhance our concept of boating. P.S. I sure wish I could get that roll out galley somewhere. And I am impressed that they put the head where it is my X! Smart.

Jimmyt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:04 am The Mac and the Swallow Coast 250 are two entirely different boats. Fit and finish, carbon fiber rig, motorized lead bulb keel, etc, all make the boat much more expensive. Hull trim tabs and center engine, with engine bay doors are major design changes from the "keep it simple and cheap" design philosophy of a Mac.

I love my Mac. But, if I had $90k that I could put in a shredder, I'd sure give the Coast 250 a look. I don't need 3 Macs. The Coast 250 is a design exercise in what a power sailer could be if you ELIMINATE THE COMPROMISES. I'm sure it has its quirks also, but it looks like a really nice boat. I would never be making a boat buying decision that included a Mac and a Coast 250 though. Being able to afford the Coast 250 puts you in a whole different group of alternatives.

My biggest concern would be; how hard is it to trailer? Looks like it might be considerably harder to setup and takedown the rig. Does anybody know how trailerable it is? That is one area that the Mac really shines.

I haven’t seen a launch of the Coast 250, but here is the launch of a baycruiser. Mast raising at 3:36.



Doesn’t look too bad.

Definitely sits higher on the trailer. It has a flatter bottom and doesn't fit between the fenders. It sits above them.

Jeff

C Buchs wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:23 am Definitely sits higher on the trailer. It has a flatter bottom and doesn't fit between the fenders. It sits above them.

Jeff

I haven’t seen the Coast 250 on a trailer. The yacht in my video is the Baycruiser, which is not a motor sailer. Different beast, but rigged similarly, so setup would be about the same.

$90k and I'll raise you another $36k. Trailer sailor, 30.1 ft, twin helm, lifting keel, rotating mast, 9300lbs, trailerable, 2020 boat of the year.
https://www.beneteau.com/us/oceanis/oceanis-301

then another $60k raise for the tow beast + $10k for the trailer. And you have a Big Mac!

Pretty sure the width of that Benetau limits its trailerability by the average owner. It’s a bit too big to really be considered a trailer sailor. It’s kind of like calling a 9000 pound tiny house an RV. They can be towed somewhere, but you’re likely going to need to hire someone to do the towing and it’s likely to be parked there awhile.

For me, a true trailer sailor is one you can launch and retrieve, then tow on your own without the need for special skills or licenses. The Benetau is a nice looking boat and I’m sure it sails great, but it’s a sailboat that has the ability to be trailered, as needed.

But, if I had $90k that I could put in a shredder,

Best description of a boat purchase....ever!!



No one will fill the MAC niche because you have to work too hard to make too little money. You can make much more by bing a" financial planner" taking 2/20 off everyones 401k and not beating the SP500.

300 boats a year at 15k wholesale to your dealer network is only 4.5 of revenue, with perhaps 900k of gross margin.

Running a factory to turn out 6 boats a week on 900k of margin? No thanks.

The price point is critical, Anything above a mid range car loan of 35k for the boat, fully outfitted, means a shrunk market and the numbers don't work

A 90k boat can be 100x better than the Mac, it won't sell in volume. Roger understood this to a T, that was his Stanford thesis.

I have a friend that towed his Seaward 32rk from IA to FL and then in IA each season with his Ram 2500. Totally agree not like towing a Mac. However, he had an M before and pulled it with a Ram 1500. Says the RK tows just like his Mac did with a 1500. PIA as you have to pull permits for every state and abide by the 'wide load marking and restrictions'.

interesting concept, the swallow 250.

It is a bigger boat, that has a with of 254cm. So it is legally trailerable in EU everywhere. But is to say in the small tracks in Italy you will have to drive very very careful.
So the boat/trail will be heavier at least 200 to 300kg. So you need bigger cars to tow... Maybe you need to pay bigger slip to...

The idea with the OB motor in the middle is interesting. Maybe you will get a very quiet ride full throttle when all is closed.
But will I loose the great stearing control with an ob the swings from left to right? And think of doing al repairs with an OB down in the boat... New gear oil... haning under the trailer... if ever is possible at all. Changing sparks... Installing bigger OB...
And even more you loose much space inside the boat, and when up you have the drag like with the swing keel of the

Having a tiller is great, big space in the cockpit. But if you want it really you could do it easily in a mac by using hydraulic steering. Then using a small tiller...

Maybe the sailing will be improoved. How much you had to check out.
Cool that there are new designs. Sad the go in the high price level.