MacGregorSailors.com

Well,

The time has never been better. Just finished my move up to the Pacific NW (Just south of Seattle). I've been lurking this forum and researching Mac's VS. the Hunter 260 (before they stopped makin' them), All the while thinking the Mac had the things I needed and wanted. Before I throw down the cash though, I wanted to throw a few questions by you all in the know:

1. For those of you that HAVE sailed it, the last boat I sailed regularly was a Hunter 170. I had more fun on that little boat in the last 10 years than some of my friends' bigger ones. However, is the step up to the 26' going to be TOO much of a jump?

2. I THINK i've decided on a 1998-2000 , but am heading up to BW Yachts this weekend to have a look around the new as well. What are YOUR takes on either of the boats?

3. This one is just to see, but is anyone in the Seattle area (i'm VERY willing to drive), that wouldn't mind letting me peak around their or a little with them and REALLY get to know the thing before I make this kind of investment? It'd obviously be good for lunch, beer, a hand with some work. Just want to get MORE familiar with the vessel. I've attached my e-mail at the bottom.

Thanks guys, and this is probably the most comprehensive and knowledgeable forum i've ever (barely) participated in on ANY subject. You guys really know your stuff.

Brandon
[email protected]

I had a friend with a H-26. the H-26 Costs more than a mac, A little better Quality, and the H-26 can outsail the 26x or 26M but we all know the H-26 cannot handle a 50HP motor. I had a mac 26D from 1988-1998 and that will outsail any 26X, 26M or H-26, but very cramped inside. I now own a 26X and I know its a cheap boat but I am spoiled by the ability to motor at 18-20mph. If its a calm evening, I fill the 2, 6 gallon tanks and cross Lake Erie to Canada in less than 2 hours, drop anchor and Sail back the next day or if bad weather is coming I can outrun it, With a 10HP I was much more hesitant to venture far from home. GoodLuck

In moving up from a 16 foot boat to a 26 boat took a little getting use to. A little like moving up from a compac car to a full size truck.

A little training, right lines and other stuff, you should have no probems. Try to remember how long it took to learn the 16 footer.

X vrs M, Well, your choice. Pro's and con's about each. A lot of threads on this. Basicly - the boat you have you make it yours. Try a search to get a lot of threads.

Don't worry about the moving up thing. What's important is that you have an understanding of the theory of sailing, and boat handling. My wife and I sailed only a Sunfish (14') for 25 years but I had learned to read the wind and the mainsail pretty well. I also had decades of experience with ski boats. One weekend we rented a Hunter 25' (imagine how scared the rentor was with my sailing log!). We were hooked but I knew from that weekend I wanted a bigger motor and wheel control. We bought our 26X new in 2001. At times I'm dissappointed with the sailing performance but overall it's a great compromise boat.

John McDonough (your Mac sailing history sounds like mine).

My former boat, a Mac 26S, sailed well, easily trailered, and no problems in setting rigging. But we needed more cabin room, and our Mac X suited us fine. We've been very happy with the Mac-X (excluding the quality of the trailer).

The MacX definately has the interior space, cockpit comfort, rough water handling, and big engine speed that we like. I would recommend a MacX because of these points, along with the well known fact that its the best out there for the $$$.

Brandon,
You refer to your purchase as an "investment" which it's not. Buying, equipping, and maintaining even a so called inexpensive boat like the Mac will be a huge outlay of money of which you'll never get a return on except for the enjoyment of using it. I've never heard of anyone using a boat more than they thought they would (take a look at any marina on a perfect summer weekend day and see how many boats sadly wait unused) so take your cost vs. use estimate and cut it in half.

X vs. M? The differences aren't huge so it really boils down to money. Buying new you will have to spend a large amount on the fit out. I filled two shopping carts at Westmarine the first time I went to fit out my new M and keep having to going back for more. A well founded X already outfitted for cruising (assuming that's what you want to do) might save you thousands. If you are ready to spend 35-40k then go for the M -you'll love it.
-Scott

WIthout trying to start a war Ill throw in...

1 The M has sailing refinements that make it sail better (faster and pointing), I believe, however most of these advantages would be hard to realise by a novice or perhaps even intermediate sailor. Buying an M to be 'faster' is probably a mistake - there are much faster used boats for similar cash - although none with all of the X or M attributes of course.

2 I like the M layout below better for families and cruising - that's a personal preference though.

3 I like the X cockpit more for families

4 You can get a lot more bang for your buck with a used X of course.

5 I own a 2002 X, to come clean.

If your are going for space the M is the way to go. I can fit 8 people sitting inside and I have slept 7 people pretty comfortably.

In regards to the size upgrade, I started sailing last summer. Never been sailing with any other sailor in my life (still to this day (anyone want to come out with me, it's tough doing all the work on your own all the time, I want to enjoy the boat from a passengers standpoint someday). Beginning of last summer I was given a 13' english topper sailboat, I didn't know the first thing about sailing especialy rigging. Once I figured how to put the little guy together, I went online and read about the basics of sailing. The next day said what the hull and just jumped right on the lake, I learned fast as to keep from spending most of my time in the water. By mid-summer I purchased a '72 Hobie 16 for $400, After that I was hooked. So that was last summer, all winter long I was researching boats and reading about sailing. By the time winter was nearing it's end (february) I went to go check out an M, 3 days later it was mine, a brand new 2006 26 foot sailboat for someone who has only been sailing for a single summer! This has been one of the best summers of my life so far. That being said once you know how to sail you can pretty much sail anything. The thing with these boats is they really are for beginners, some people would disagree. Some people say the boat does not sail well thus making it pretty difficult to sail and definately not a "beginner" boat. Granted it isn't the best sailing boat and does take a lot of practice to sail it well, but I beleive what roger was reffering to when he says it is a beginners boat is it's simplicity. There isn't much to this boat at all, so there isn't too much to learn for a newbie, it's a real basic boats which has all the basic functions needed to sail nothing too fancy. I don't think I would want anything with more options or functions, all that means is more work. I think I will always try to keep any future sailboats I have as simple as possible, less to break and less work.

The 'hybrid' hull shape and the 50 HP motor can get you out of a lot of scrapes in those first two years of learning...last fall I helped a couple step a mast on a small 20-22 boat with a small kicker...had just come through Woods Hole MA with this....they asked if there were tides in the region ...


Gulp.....


Woods hole runs up to a 5 knot Ebb with rocks all around a narrow channel with the occasional 35 knot New Bedford-Nantucket High speed ferry coming through a few times a day ...it is not a place for a a badly running kicker motor...

Perfect place to learn to sail with a boat-motor combination that can over power the sails, if needed. Going into my 5th season, I realise I cant remember the last time I had to do this....

All the changes in the X occured in boats made after August 1999. There is a list somewhere here of what was done . You might like the X without the changes though.
I would go with a 90HP engine if you decide to get a new motor on the older boat.

"X vs. M? The differences aren't huge so it really boils down to money."

Actually, this just goes to show it is personal preference. A month ago I was ready to buy a new M. I took a ride on the M, and then looked at a local 2001 X for sale. I was very much willing to spend almost twice as much on a new boat, but my preferences for a bigger cockpit, better head (my criteria, not everyones's), MUCH easier access from the cockpit to the cabin, etc, made my decision an easy one - the X. But everyone's criteria is different, and both are great boats.

Now all I have to do is get the boat in the water (unfortunately I have commitments for another month)!!!!!

Brandon:
Be aware it is more than X vs M, there are also two flavors of the M, the 03-04 and the later 05 version. The 03-04 M's seem to have more room below but the 05 has a few more finishing touches. You are very fortunate to be moving to the PNW as it must be the worlds most premiere and pristine beautiful sailing destination. Unfortunately it is governed by seasons so it is only premiere/pristine for 4 months. BWY is probably your best bet for dealers in the area and they have some very good aftermarket additions. I also bought new an '03 M and am very happy with it although I will confess the price of the Mac reflects it's lack of refinements. There is a used '05 M for sale just North of you, about 20 minutes north of the 49th parallel. They want $48K Cdn for it but it is decked out to the nines, full enclosure, the works. The owner even replaced his lines with matching black & white ones to make the boat look nicer. So how far do you want to drive?
Ssichler is right you may save thousands on a used boat, not sure about his investment veiwpoint though, a boat does not depreciate as much or as fast as a compareably priced automobile so there is better re-sale value. As for use per $ well that is another issue, I prefer to be out sailing than driving around town.
I guess you've noticed that summer is here and the winds are in the 15 knot range if you check the marine forecasts, plenty of small craft warnings too! You'd best make the plunge ASAP, sailing weather is passing you by.

Jumping up in size by multiples of boat length is not all that hard, at least it wasn't for me. My helming history went something like this...
14 ft. sloop, 16 ft. sloop, 22 ft. sloop, 42 ft. sloop, 64 ft sloop, 132 ft. schooner, 30 ft. sloop, and then M26X. The only difference I noticed in helming in any of these boats was boiled down to four major things to remember: 1. Momentum. 2. Reaction time. 3. Communications. 4. Visibility.

Larger heavy boats will take longer to react to wind and wave, or helm input, and will travel a lot further on momentum, or be harder to stop when the power is diminished or stopped, whether sail or engine. When moving up, just remember to allow the boat more time to respond to your wishes.
Communications with crew on the foredeck or bow must be well coordinated the further they are from the helm. Work out a plan in advance.
Visibility is reduced due to bigger boats being wider at the beam, so docking or pennant picking is harder from the helm position, leading to the need for better communications with the foredeck crew. Or, if singlehanding, a remote helm device so the skipper can operate the boat from the bow. Even if it's just a few lines run foreward from the tiller or wheel to guide the boat from the bow while under idle power to pick up a pennant.

Terry wrote:Ssichler is right you may save thousands on a used boat, not sure about his investment veiwpoint though, a boat does not depreciate as much or as fast as a comparable priced automobile so there is better re-sale value. As for use per $ well that is another issue, I prefer to be out sailing than driving around town.
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Terry,
I'm not sure how even if a boat depreciates slower than a car that would qualify it as an investment. The boat itself my depreciate more slowly but I guarantee you anything that you put on it like electronics, sails, and an engine will be worth much less in even a year's time. I sold a boat last year through a broker (I'm guessing more Macs are sold by owners) that didn't depreciate much at all in three years but I was still out 8.25% tax, registration, everything I put into it like new sails and 10% commission to the broker. Not exactly the best investment I've ever made.

I do have to agree with you on one point - I would much rather be sailing than driving around town anytime

Brandon - One last piece of advice - don't be in a rush. You won't regret taking the time to find the right boat for you even if it means missing one sailing season. The sun will come out again next year and any time spent sailing doesn't get deducted from your lifespan.

-Scott

Scott,
I guess it boils down to how you define investment. A boat may not be a a good financial investment, ( beats a car though) - (electronics are safety investments, sails & motor are FUN/performance investments) but as a lifestyle investment, it qualifies big time. For me it is a case of enjoying the fruits of my years of labour, I invested in a sailboat to enjoy life with, are there any better investments for this? What else, as you put it, provides you with time spent that is not deducted from your lifespan?
You are right about taking your time, I took a couple years but for different reasons, today, in retrospect I'd rush anyone into it, I hear about too many folks dying before enjoying life , I wouldn't want to be one of them.
Got to wonder though...seems to be a few folks who have run the gaumet of boats only to settle in with a mac, must be a pretty sound choice, I plan to keep mine until I die or until health stops me from sailing.
One last point, I do not regret one single penny I have invested in my boat, and look forward to investing more.