How Big a Genoa?

[fsmith]

I sail in a small lake, with winds 95% of the time less than 10 knots.
That means a lot of days with 5 to7 knot winds !
Some days less than that!

I want more upwind speed in these conditions , So has any body tried a
larger, over 150% genoa.? 170%?

Has any body tried a whole new sailplan, like a huge genoa and/or
a longer boom with a bigger mainsail.

How about a mainsail with humongous roach!


Help me out please! I thinking of trading to another sailboat !

Oops, forgive my Blasphemy!

[R Rae]

Never mind the blasphemy bit. We hear that all the time.

Why not look into this boat:

PRECOURT 7.5 Trailerable Sailboat


We keep hearing it's the answer to all our problems!


Cheers, Ron

[baldbaby2000]

I've used a 150% on my boat. In winds less than 5 knots it seems almost worse than a jib going upwind. I have to let it out quite a bit at times to keep the boat from heading down. I have to add that this problem isn't unique to Macs in very light air but is a little worse on a Mac probably because of the freeboard causing the boat to head down more than one wants after a tack and making tacking difficult.

I don't know how long you've been sailing your boat but even though I did a fair amount of racing before getting my M, it took me a while to figure out how to sail it. A few things especially in light air: don't make sudden movements with the rudders, try to balance the boat by adjusting the sails so that the rudders are turned too far one way or the other. When tacking, do it slowly so the boat speed doesn't stall, come through the eye of the wind without backwinding the headsail if possible, and after the tack head off a little with sails slacked until you build up speed then slowly ease the boat onto the proper upwind course.

We're thinking of upgrading but just when I think I have a better trailerable solution I realize I already have the best compromise. There just doesn't seem to be a boat with the headroom and interior space the size of a Mac, not to mention the cost. I'm still waiting though.

Daniel

[ronacarme]

For lite air I run a 200 sq ft nylon (1 1/2 oz?) drifter. Lighter cloth than a genny so fills well when there is little wind. Upwind and close reaching it directs air over the main and so both drive.
Was out last month on Lake Mich in flat calm. No noticable air movement. Main would not move the boat at all. Upped the drifter and sheeted in and boat began to move on close reach, getting up to about 1 mph + on gps. Only place you could feel a little breeze was aft of the slot between the main and drifter.
Hanks onto forestay. Carried over to my 2001 X from my 1988 D. Sheets outside the shrouds, like a genny, so is not as close winded as the working jib.
Ron

[jetta01]

If you go with the Genoa, I would advise not to have the sail cover sewn onto it if your winds are always that light. The sail cover is nice to have as it protects and you don't have to mess with it, but its own weigh causes a loss in sail shape when the wind is that light... I run a 150 genoa with cover and if the wind is that light, there is not much hope for good sail shape.

[Highlander]

350 sq ft spin made of 3/4oz challenger spinnaker sail cloth, look at the main sail as you can see its doing nothing yet the spin is full



Great for these no wind days , you don't have to go this large the cloth is very light, like tissue paper but strong, their avail in diff. sizes, off the shelf

John

[waternwaves]

strip everything out of the boat,

replace all the sails, with lighterweight material....... jib, .5,- .75, no jenny needed for small lake or light wind,

dont put in ballast water,

take the 50 hp off, dont need it on a small lake, 5 hp kicker instead


replace main with a 2 Oz main full roach.....



now you will be able to go fast enough to be the biggest boat the on the lake able to see everyones transom......recede.


Or leave it as it is..... and motor when the wind is that light, and tow a laser to scoot around in.

[delevi]

Or perhaps find a new lake to sail on which has some wind. Not much sailing in 5-7 kts on any boat.

[NiceAft]

What are the other sailors on the lake doing

"Misery loves company". It's a great way to make friends

Ray

[fsmith]

Thanks for all the help guys, the addition of a Code O like gennaker, may be considered.

But seriously, I am not the only sailor in the World who suffers from many days of light wind. Yes I can turn the motor on. Yes I can strip the boat. No I am not going to move away. Yes I can vacation in more windy areas. Yes I agree that sailing sucks in light wind, but that is the reality.

Please, HAS ANYBODY TRIED A 170 GENOA AND/OR A HUGE SQUARE BACKED MAINSAIL ON THEIR MACGREGOR 26X OR 26M?. I realize the balance my be affected, so I don't want to be the first guy to try it.

I can get my boat to hold its own in good winds, but if I can add more sail area, perhaps I can get a decent breeze in my face going upwind for those hot days. I have a jib, a 150 genoa, a very roachy mainsail, and the stock assymetrical spinaker already. No doubt, somebody will suggest a fan for hot days!

[Frank C]

I've been a daily reader on this website since the first day it opened. I don't ever recall reading anyone's report of a Genoa beyond 150, or so. Considering your current sail inventory, I don't see how you could improve it with a 170.

With winds as light as you're describing, a 170 would need be extremely light cloth to even fly. Then too, the clew on a 170 is far enough aft that you'll be hard-pressed to trim it effectively. The coamings of the 26X are already too high to provide adequate downforce on my decksweeper, a 135.

Seems to me the Assym or a Code0 are both better choices.

[delevi]

If the spinnaker is insufficient, a 170 genoa will not help either. Sorry to point out the obvious, but no matter how big the sail, it still requires wind to move the boat. Some locales are just not great for sailing. The good news is that your boat is trailerable. Another issue with oversized sails is on those windy days, you will find out very quickly that the boat will be overpowered. Wish I coud give some more encouraging advice.

Good luck,
Leon

[Moe]

At our little local lake, max wind many, if not most days is below 10 mph. For some reason, that SEEMS to be true especially on the weekends. Stronger winds are USUALLY associated with rain and/or thunderstorms. We have to be willing to go out then, when gusts can get to 30-40 mph.

But there's plenty of good sailing getting done on light days by most of the boats... ours and her sister ship, Venture 17, ComPac 19 and 23, a Flicka, Capri 22s, Precision 23, Cat and O'Day 25s, and a host of others I don't recognize.

Loosen the luffs and outhaul, and sit on the leeward side. When it's really, really light, take up a bit on the topping lift. On hot days, wind in the face isn't a problem upwind, it's downwind that its' weak, but wing and wing helps there. The few with cruising spinnakers use them downwind.

Bottomline though, is once it gets to about 92ºF, usually in August with the weakest winds, it's time to play with an indoor hobby. Even riding the Harley is like riding into a blast furnance. That's not a problem for me, since August is our busiest time of the year at work and I'm often working 7 days/week then.
--
Moe

[Andy26M]

fsmith wrote:

I want more upwind speed in these conditions

First off, I've never heard of anyone using a genoa greater than 150% on a Mac, X or M.

Based on the original question, however, a 170 genoa is NOT the answer. If anything, a larger genoa is going to further compromise upwind performance.

For best UPWIND performance, you want a jib with very good sail shape and tight sheeting angles, i.e. it is not going to come aft past the mast more than a little bit. So, maybe a 110% of very light sailcloth.

For upwind performance, your thought of a (custom-cut) large roach Main is probably more on target. The large roach area would be higher off the water and hence less subject to surface interference or turbulence - i.e. what we call "cleaner air". You'd also want at least one full batten, and perhaps full battens for the entire sail - make the battens do the work of shaping the sail instead of the wind.

For both sails, the sail loft should be able to make the best recommendations for cloth weight as well as cut patterns, etc. Most of them are using computer-based systems which can take your boat's dimensions and the range of wind speeds and come up with "optimized" designs.

- Andy