Roger's new head sail furler " Any Pics" !

[bscott]

A swivel top furler will give the jib tuner the ability to harden up the jib for maximum pointing and ease the halyard to give the jib a rounder entry to run off the wind. It only controls the top of the sail. The back stay will control the entire jib.

Same goes for the main halyard---harden it up for pointing, ease it off to twist the top for running. The cunningham only controls the bottom 25% of the main---ease the cunningham, the halyard and the backstay and the outhaul for off the wind sailing.

Delevi---nice looking sails

BTW, I've been waiting 2 months for my K-H main. Its a good thing we have 8" of white stuff on the ground. Maybe Santa will have my sail to me by Christmas

[Highlander]

Well lets see,

I have three cdi furling systems on my boat all up and ready to go at the same time , 4 count them ! thats right 4 forestay's , 2 sets of spreaders , 1 set of jumper struts , 5 sets of shrouds , 1 backstay , a 4ft bowsprit , a three sectional mast extended from 24ft to 28ft , a rigid vang , no extra ballast, I have no issues with weight aloft !!! , I have a 16min video of my boat sailing upwind pointing less than 30 deg. into the wind at times , in 20knot or more wind at times , cutting through 1 1/2meter waves with the top of the mast less than 30deg of the water at times no fear of her going over flying full genny, jib cutter rigged and main "not reefed" all together, very exciting sailing smashing through the waves no stall here ! sails like the cats a$$ whats the problem here, Do I know something nobody else doe's or is it just my little crazy streak lets me push this boat to the outer limits !!!
Beene I gave you a copy of this video & other video's , you have my permission to post cut & edit if you like ok

PS Terry I ordered one the new mac furler's
I'll be checking out the cf700 furler at the boat show in Jan as I'm going up to a 30ft mast !!!!

John

[delevi]

Thanx bscott.
Highlander, your rig intimidates me I think I would need 3-4 crew to sail that Macpony of yours.

Now back to the CDI. I made a quick mod in anticipation of the newly purchasd genny. Tell me what you think guys.

1. SS snap shackle, attaching to the furler shackle opposite the luff groove and to the tack. This would avoid fidgeting with those difficult shackles which require pliers to operate. The tack would be attached before there is tension on the halyard.

2. Small d-shackle to attach halyard to head (instead of just tieing it off)

3. Now the fun part... The end of the halyard line which would attach to the second shackle on the furler once the sail is hoisted is cut shorter and tied to an SS O-ring. The other end of the O ring has a 4 foot line tied to it. The shackle on the furler has a small Harken fiddle block with v-jam cleat built in, permanently shackled so no need to open the furler shackle. Once the sail is mostly hoisted, the messanger line is removed via shanp hook (attached to the O-ring) Then the 4' line off the same o-ring would feed through the fiddle block at the base of the furler, back up through the o-ring, and back down to the block where it exits and cleats off at the jam. This allows for 3:1 purchase to control halyard tension. Tension can also be relieved. To swap sails, everything comes apart without tools or untieing lines. Just need to attach the messanger line.
4. Plenty of sailcoat on the luff of the sail.

What do you guys think?

Leon

[delevi]

TT,

HOW DARE YOU POST A LINK TO A PICTURE OF MY WIFE THAT YOU PULLED FROM MY PERSONAL WEB SITE! YOU JACKASS! THIS IS CROSSING THE LINE.

SENDING PM TO MODERATOR.

I took everything down. Consequently, all of my photo links, except the most recent ones are now gone.

[They Theirs]

You were not saying that on this post?

Check the Link! It is a photo linked to your own post on this forum..
You "Delevi" posted the photo link here on the forum...

Delevi…wrote:
TT,
HOW DARE YOU POST A LINK TO A PICTURE OF MY WIFE THAT YOU PULLED FROM MY PERSONAL WEB SITE!
YOU JACKASS! THIS IS CROSSING THE LINE.
SENDING PM TO MODERATOR.
I took everything down. Consequently, all of my photo links, except the most recent ones are now gone.

Maybe you’ll find a way to apologize for your blustering potty-mouth..
Check the Link! It is a photo linked to your own post on this forum..You posted the photo here on the forum...

I’ll remain reserve on nasty name-calling for now!

[They Theirs]

Delevi
The post was not to find fault with your first-rate Quantum Fusion Sails, but to bring back the fact ‘Furling~Reefing’ systems cause an unavoidable forestay sag. Furler Reefing is bad for many reasons…including windage, poor shape, new tack reefed sail weak point, lack of reefed luff tension, lack of block position for proper lead of reefed headsail, etc, etc, etc.

From~"The Old Salt" Spinnaker Sailing's Newsletter
Issue #2 May 2007
"Furling Mainsails and Jibs "

You’ll notice that I don’t call headsail furling “reefing.” While many people may use furling systems for reefing their jibs or genoas, it’s an unreliable system for regular use for this purpose for these reasons. First, it puts a HUGE amount of torque on the furling drum which is the focal point for all the stress from the sail being partially furled and then the sheets at the other end trying to unfurl it. Second, sails are cut with a prescribed shape at the luff (leading edge) and furling them moves the draft horribly too far aft, a problem exacerbated by the headstay’s flexibility.
If you use the headsail furler as just that, a furler, you’ll see years of trouble-free service out of it. When it comes to headsail furling we have an expression here at Spinnaker, either off or full. It means either set the sail fully, or furl it fully. All of our boats have, at most, a 90% blade on the forestay so these sails are well suited for the Bay’s fresh breeze. One of the foremost problems that arises out of furling use, both jib and main is that you MUST have a tight halyard hoisting the sail during furl and unfurl. This requires that you actually CHECK the halyard both before unfurling AND furling. Save yourself a lot of grief by performing this simple task.
Furling , (not reefing) lighter sail, draft forward with great shape..All in or All out

Heavy Reefing/Furling headsail with all the works

Roller/Reefed Headsail with deep draft aft..Note stressed reefed tack area.

Typical Deep Draft, Poorly shaped Mainsail Roller Reefed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We feel CDI furling provides a window-shade benefit for those who care least about sail-shape and performance.
The same individuals fail to see the benefit of a proper lead or changing halyard tension for point of sail,
offering persistent attempts qualifying the genoa as best performer for ‘One Sail for all Conditions’.

The poorly designed CDI system
1. Flat extrusion design, centered, but extends beyond the headstay, and does not align with the wind as other furlers with luff foil designs.
2. The flat extrusion does not turn round or furl smoothly and rolled shape increases windage.
3. Bizarre single luff extrusion groove limits sail changing and use of double headsails.
4. Sail changes are difficult on the trailer, just about impossible on the water, requiring a messenger line and helper to pull the sail down, and again feeding and pushing the sail up.
5. Very small self-contained internal extrusion small line halyard and head shive are marginal quality, limiting static luff tension.
6. The static luff tension is set with archaic small line wraps.
7. Plastic extrusion assumes unacceptable shape when stored or on deck.
8. Extrusion can be easily broken if bent or struck carelessly.
9. Sail control is lost for the lack of the jib halyard luff tension.
10. No pre-feeder, and luff extrusion notch makes sail change difficult.
11. Extremely small cheap shackles make securing halyard and tack primitive.

Modern sailors furl, but do not reef…
Large mainsail with a big roach combines with small headsails and big assy spinnakers.

[Catigale]

Picture posting should be reserved to your own stuff, or with prior permission, other peoples stuff germane to topic. If you arent sure if you have permission to post someones pictures, dont.

Public/celebrity pictures (eg Larry Craig foot-tapping with J-Lo) in the appropriate Forum are ok. Note that for Board purposes, 'Public' is not synonymous with 'accessible'


If you really need guidance on these principles, please go to another website, since these are things we all learned in kintergarden and we dont have time to teach these things here.

~sps

[Highlander]

Same Old Salt , Same Old Fart , Same Old Sh_t . Oops can I say that

With that train of thought we'd still be sailing across our ocean's instead of flying over them !!!

on second thought that might not be such a bad proposition say on that nice PUMA boat

Before the jackass, their was a mustang , the mustang met the pony , then their was the ponyM, the ponyM went back to the mustang , then their was the mustangM " Oops I think that's called incest"
somewhere in between their was a mustangX think he met the donkey oops & now we got a jack_ _ _

Think we have a love triangle going on here we keep trying to F _ _ _ with each others minds !!!

Com on guy's its almost XMAS do I have to come over their & force a bottle of my old cough medicine down your throats Hm maybe, maybe down mine too

This is Terry's post , Have any of you met Terry he's a big strong boy kinda reminds me of the "incredible Hulk" not the kinda guy you wanna p_ss _ff , but a gentle man can only be a gentleman for so long !!! so be forewarned

Now civilized, intelligent discussions are welcome I'm trying to learn something here

TT your great sailing knowledge & opinions I think would be more appreciated if presented in a more educated & diplomatic manner rather
than "Dictated" forced fed do or die approach !!! something to ponder on ! . You can't force the horse to the water , but you can carry the water to the horse, then he will follow you there the next time !!!
Keep chumming for sharks & one day you might just get a great white !!! Da. Da. Da. How'd that get into the frying pan

Leon, keep the idea's coming , as for your wife's pic well if your going to hike that beautiful woman out their as rail meat at least get her a safety harness & tether for Xmas lucky for you this shark does not chase married woman although they love my Scottish accent !
good beautiful woman who love to sail are hard to come by so get that harness make it two !!



Of course the guy who's hiked out taking this pic should have "Beene" wearing it!!!

Beene, nice chumming I only put out a small worm !!

So does anybody know of anyone who has used the CF700 furler & get an unbiased opinion with some nice pic's , lets get back to Terry's subjected question

All that said and done where's my chop sticks I'm gonna go an beat up on something !

Cheers John

[delevi]

Don't recall ever posting that photo. I did a search and couldn't find it, so assumed you dug thorugh my web site (creepy.) Link you posted where I supposedly had the photo doesn't have any photo link (nor broken link) Anyway, assuming that II posted it, your context is in poor taste:

we can see a little luff… but cannot tell if there is any sagging?

This was a link to a shot of my wife on deck, inadvertently showing pleny cleavage. Considering the context, clearly a childish dig.

It's all fun and games when you hide behind the safety of your keyboard. Bet you wouldn't do the equivelent if the interaction was face to face, otherwise you'd end up with a broken jaw.

I'm disgusted that I have to resort to this crap on my favorite web site. Clearly some of us can't carry on a discussion without making personal attacks. Sad.

Leon

[They Theirs]

Delevi
I never sniveled like a “Mama’s Boy!” when Mac2 linked this with my ‘wife’ in the photo, on this board, evaluating his proper loos gauge rig tension.

If it makes things better I’ll offer my apology for linking to your posted photo…hope it makes you feel better?
Again … you posted the photo…

[waternwaves]

Del

Perhaps a little light on the issue....

If something is posted on a freely accessible website, non password protected, and the like, hosted by a server under the control of a US corporation, US law is in order. Original images contained within, may be subject to copyright or trade limitations.

However, your posting of the images ascribes to the user a non commercial license to view. , and while case law is still young on these issues, the utilization of a link, on another unaffiliated forum, does not in any way, reduce or impair your property or rights. Furthermore publication in the public domain (without citation of your rights or properties ( which photobucket is rife with) does not preclude you from futher loss of use.

most people would be far less comfortable with posting all of their private photos, if they knew how unprotected those are.

but as you know, YOu Tube and other domains capitalize on the images of others.

In any case,

As an astute viewer and reader, you will be happy to know,
I for one, did not think of anything other than the luff clearances on the sail, I doubt the comment was intended otherwise.
As far as bringing in content on topic, I have to give credit here, TT can carry a topic well past the point of convincing me, ( A habit I also share).
Furthermore, I (with my ample lard, and my beautiful admiral) have been put out into the etherium on numerous occasions, and I don't take offense when my rotundness is accidentally left out there, likewise, the admiral/daughters have not expressed concern when there visages have been captured in outdoor activities. They have trusted that the camera wielder has exercised some forethought as to where and when these initial pics might be displayed. These video's and stills taken by others have brought great enjoyment to us on many a cold and blustery winter eve, and I would be remiss If I did not take the time to thank the photographers for sharing with us.

I appreciate your clarifications on the sailiing and performance issues, I look forward to more posts, But I don't think anyone was trying to disparage you, your crew or another in the re-use of those images.

I will further confess, I have used others photo's to reference particular issues at times. I can think of an issue with Frank M, (who I may not agree with, but I do enjoy people that have the gumption to write well and post their beliefs) where we challenged each other repeatedly on what was depicted in a couple of photos...., So I do believe there are times where ones own photos best illustrate the discussions.

So I hope this misunderstanding can return to the technical issues you and others originally brought forth, and that we advance the study.

Thanks
|>arren

[Trouts Dream]

As an astute viewer and reader, you will be happy to know,
I for one, did not think of anything other than the luff clearances on the sail, I doubt the comment was intended otherwise.

I am of the same opinion.

As for the performance of a CDI roller (I have one), points are well taken but need I remind TT that it is for a Macgregor 26X or M which has so much freeboard that foresail sag going to wind is a minor problem. Cost and convienience are much higher considerations for me. I liken it to agrueing which type of blower to install on a Winnebago. Yup it may go faster, thanks for the opinion, but in the end I won't be racing most folks off the line.

Love my camper/motor/sailer.

[delevi]

Delevi I never sniveled like a “Mama’s Boy!” when Mac2 linked this with my ‘wife’ in the photo, on this board, evaluating his proper loos gauge rig tension.

You wish dude

[Terry]

Delevi I never sniveled like a “Mama’s Boy!” when Mac2 linked this with my ‘wife’ in the photo, on this board, evaluating his proper loos gauge rig tension.

You wish dude

Funny I was thinking the same thing, your wife?"Only in your Dreams"
Ok, back on topic,
I started poking around Kelly-Hansons' site due to the good sail prices and noticed a couple things. First off the luff sails offered comes with a #6 luff tape, the size for a SnapfurlCF-700, so what size does CDI use? I see they sell the CDI FF2 for $595.00, is this a good price? (Sailboatowners site has them for $400.00 & change) Maybe it is the one with the upgraded bearings - online research has shows metal bearings upgrade available for the CDI. I didnt find a Snapfurl advertised there so why is the luff tape #6? For an extra $100.00 the Snapfurl becomes the better choice. ($714.00 from Trotac marine). But then Mike Inmon eludes to two versions of the Snapfurl, more confusion. Hard to make a decision with such conflicting prices and description. The worst part is deciding wether or not one should convert their existing sails from hank to luff or just get a new luff jib from Kelly-Hanson ($295.00 for the C2000 material - whatever that means). How much would it cost to convert a jib, or genoa of same luff length? The genoa is bigger and costlier so the conversion is justified, not sure with the jib. So if one springs for a new jib might as well get a new main to go with it, one with more roach, like I don't have enough expense getting a roller furler. It is starting to get complicated, perhaps I should just get the furler at the boat show Jan & Feb (Trotac will have a booth there) and hope for a show deal then get all new sails next year. (means leaving the furler in the garage for a season). Luff conversion has to have economical value otherwise new sails are in order. I have yet to price the conversion, but I really need more reason to justify a new main, a new jib helps as does 5 seasons on the OEM main, it looks like it.
I have a NorthSails loft 10-15 minutes from home and I could easily tow over there for accurate measurements, they appear to be quite reputable. Then there is a Quantum loft about 1 hour away, across the city that I could also tow to. They both would have good recommendations for local conditions. Kelly-Hanson only offers the increased roach on their pentax line and I am not entirely convinced pentax is the way to go, judging by the Kelly site the price completely doubles with pentax. Is it worth it and does pentax have the same or better longevity of good dacron? Decisions decisions...
We know Leon is happy with his new sails, I would be too but I also want a long lifespan for that kind of $$ and I suspect dacron has the lead. Anyone able to comment?
Aside from the previous bickering this is still a good topic and requires more input, so feel free to jump in.

[Alex]

Guys, Topic's name was
Roger's new head sail furler " Any Pics" !

Let's back to main discussion....
For personal, please use a PM