Steering Alternatives? Anyone?

[Currie]

Hi All - and Happy Holidays,

Just a quick wintertime delusional kind of question. Has anyone ever thought of yanking the pedestal from an M in favor of another type of steering? Don't get me wrong, I like the pedestal...sort of, I guess. I feel all "captain-y", or something, behind a helm, as opposed to a tiller. But then again, I'd like a little freedom in the cockpit too - especially with my wife and three kids aboard.

I was thinking the other day, what if one modified the captain's seat with lever steering - similar to an airboat? If I we're to do it (just hypothetical mind you ) - I'd use dual-lever hydraulic, combined so that only the diffential position (one forward, one back) would turn the boat. If I wanted to sit high when heeling, I'd lock one side and easily reach the other from the port/starboard cockpit seat. It would allow only half the rudder action this way (vs. using both levers) but still easily steer the boat while sailing.

A future auto pilot is still an option - I'd just have to buy the hydraulic version. Also, instruments would be mounted along new arms attached to the helm/captain's-seat, as would the throttle. The seat would no longer open, obviously - I don't use it for boarding at the marina anyway.

I did some quick calcs that show it doesn't have as much leverage as the helm (about 40% of the helms leverage), but it's hydraulic, and shorter, so it has less friction. Also, it's pretty much on par with a tiller's leverage.

Weird idea - but I'm entertaining it. Having all controls mounted on/around the helm-seat - and a very spacious cockpit. Even when sailing alone, the trip up to adjust the daggerboard, sail trim, etc. or get a beverage would be much more enjoyable. Just better 'feng shui' all the way around.

Has anyone ever done anything like this? Just curious.

~Bob

[Retcoastie]

What a wonderful idea. I have an X with the large wheel. It takes half the cockpit, and getting around it requires some contortions. How I wish I had a tiller that I could raise out of the way at the end of the trip.

Merry Christmas

[delevi]

Interesting how the wheel/tiller is a matter of personal preference. Before I got my , I looked at 1991 Mac (not sure if was S or D) It was in excellent condition with new Nissan 9.9 OB. $7k asking price. I would have bought it had it had wheel steering. So here's an idea:
Sell your Mac or Buy the tiller-steered Mac. Use the extra money to upgrade your boat. Just a thought.

Happy Holidays!
Leon

[Terry]

Interesting how the wheel/tiller is a matter of personal preference. Before I got my , I looked at 1991 Mac (not sure if was S or D) It was in excellent condition with new Nissan 9.9 OB. $7k asking price. I would have bought it had it had wheel steering.
Happy Holidays!
Leon

It could have been the ,I believe it had tiller steering as well.
Funny how personal preference has such an impact. I followed a thread on another sailing site that debated the Wheel vs Tiller and discovered many differing reasons for the preferences, all valid ones. I personally prefer the wheel but can readily discern the advantages of a tiller, especially with my large frame, the M cockpit is a bit tight to say the least, but then it is also nice to be able to reach my legs across to the leeward seat when heeling to brace myself. There are many sailing boats much larger than the Mac that still have tillers and folks swear by them and would not have it any other way, yet I see those ships with the big 3 foot or larger diameter wheels and the skipper holding it and it looks so commmanding that I could not see it any other way. I would likely have a larger wheel in my M if there was room for it (I was thinking 18") but as it is I have trouble manouvering around the little 15" one I have. The bigger heavier engines tend to defeat the idea of a tiller on the X or M especially considering the throttle. I am not sure how the got around this with a 40hp engine. The tiller makes more sense on the pure sailboats but I cannot comprehend it on the hybrid unless one only uses a small outboard on them. Can you imagine beene with his 75HP trying to operate that with a tiller?

PS. Bob (currie) how is that rear berth mod you pictured some time back comming? The one where you drew a wall across where the ladder is and added shelve and holders and created a little door to the aft berth. I printed the picture and put it in my mods wish book for future consideration. I liked the idea enough that I may tackle it in my retirement years. I see Jack Sparrow did some similar ideas in his boat, saw them on the mods page, but I still liked your aft berth concept more. It looks like quite a challenge to build though, but I should have plenty of time in my retirement.

[Jack Sparrow]

I toyed with the idea of mounting twin helms either side of the cabin entry controlling the rudders then using hydraulic steering lever control permanently hooked up to the engine but interference with the traveller operation and wheel position killed it. To increase the clearance between the wheel and cockpit seating in it’s present configuration we are going to install a folding wheel, the main irritation seems to be passing around the helm during happy hour

Jack Sparrow

[Deeseas]

Terry
The does have a tiller but it only connects to the rudders, the motor is locked in a center position and all steering when powering is done by the rudders ( quite poorly too ). I made a bracket for my motor so the tiller connects to it allowing me to steer the motor and since I power most of the time I can remove the rudders and mast and leave them at home. While docked I can remove the tiller by pulling a locking pin and I have the whole cockpit to move about
Doug

[eric3a]

..

[Currie]

Heheh, great replies.

Actually, for me the tiller's out. Don't know why - it's actually superior in many ways, like touch-feedback when sailing. But the tiller's not what I want. For one, I hate powering with a tiller. I think the dual-lever fits the bill. Just in case my description sounded like a tiller, here's a clarification -

You sit in the helm seat, facing straight forward. Arms/arm-rests have been added to it. There's nothing straight ahead except the open cockpit. Just outside of each arm is a vertical lever. Each lever is connected to a low-pressure hydraulic cylinder. The cylinders are "plumbed" to create a displacement only when one is forward and the other back. Outside of the right lever is the throttle. Instrument racks are mounted on each arm rest above the top of the lever. GPS, Depth Sounder, RPM, Battery, Starter, Radio, etc. all very handy. The hydraulics and control cables are now much shorter than before. Another fringe benefit is it removes the umbilical cord from the berth under the cockpit.

Anyway, I thought it sounded cool. I'd prefer wheel steering, but the new freedom in the cockpit may outweigh it. BTW, I'm not sure how buying a tiller boat accomplishes the same thing

I may have to visit my frozen boat and size it all up. If anyone's interested in a drawing I could do that.

Cheers,

~Bob

[waternwaves]

Ouch..........

I resemble that remark.....

And tho I am too unwieldy to be very good sailboarding anymore......

some would say using the rudder is sometimes cheating... fix that puppy in place, balance the boat.....weight shift....etc....

Oh hull.......
I just want to go sailing again. TDB (Codespeak for "to damn busy")

or Wageslave......

[Currie]

PS. Bob (currie) how is that rear berth mod you pictured some time back comming? The one where you drew a wall across where the ladder is and added shelve and holders and created a little door to the aft berth. I printed the picture and put it in my mods wish book for future consideration. I liked the idea enough that I may tackle it in my retirement years. I see Jack Sparrow did some similar ideas in his boat, saw them on the mods page, but I still liked your aft berth concept more. It looks like quite a challenge to build though, but I should have plenty of time in my retirement.

Hi Terry,

...and thanks for asking! I bought the plywood, and asked for some of the lighting hardware for Christmas (heheh, I saw the package arrive from Popeye's Marine the other day). I'm getting some nice brass lighting - two sconce lights with shades, and two bulkhead cage lights (gorgeous). The latter go on the aft bulkhead. I'll update them with LED lights. I can't wait to get started. I'll post construction pics in that thread if I get a chance.

~Bob

[eric3a]

..

[Jack Sparrow]

Leon

Does your after market rudders improve rudder pressure feed back through the helm wheel. I am struggling at the moment stalling out the rudders when pointing.

Jack Sparrow

[edurbin]

Hey Bob,
We had something similar to that in a good discussion in January 2006. In the Modification discussion section you will find at page 10 a thread for "26M Steering Pedestal Rotation" Jan23 by Edurbin. Here the topic of Stick Steering was raised, and some Mac 19's had even installed it. Also, you can read what we did to actually improve the problem of 26M cockpit space on our boat - Mods page in the Cockpit section under author Craig Garlick, Jan 15 and Jan 3 in 2006.

Cheers
Craig

[Currie]

Great discussion, Craig - thanks for that link! I'll give all that some thought. And by BTW - awesome job on that cockpit seating mod.

Cheers,

~Bob

On Edit: For reference - here's the link....

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4585

[delevi]

Does your after market rudders improve rudder pressure feed back through the helm wheel. I am struggling at the moment stalling out the rudders when pointing.

Can't necessarily say there is improved feedback, but it sure will take much more to stall them. I immediately noticed an improvement in pointing, probably due to the larger size (perahps improved foil shape) but I'm no expert there. When beating in a good breeze, sheeted hard, I usually keep the helm about 5 degrees to leeward. Keeps it nice and stable with just enough weather helm to maximize pointing. Don't need to work the helm much unless it's really windy. Bigger rudders, highly recommended, but a word of caution. Additional reinforcement is a good idea. Search previous posts on this.

Leon
On edit: One nice feature of the autopilot is the display shows your exact rudder angle. This is available on all screens of the AP control panel.