How much are you willing to pay?

Janusch · Post by **Janusch** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:03 am

On this forum we have reviewed quite a few other boats (Telstar, Odin, ...) one common reply is that Boat X is great, but at three times the price of a Macgregor I can't justify buying it. So my question is how much are we willing to pay for a better boat? I would guess a new 26M with engine and options would run between $25,000 - $30,000 new. So are you willing to pay

Tony D-26X_SusieQ · Post by **Tony D-26X_SusieQ** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:38 am

Anybody can get it right if you give them a blank check!

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:10 am

I voted "Love My Mac you couldn't give me another boat" Only because I am landlocked in the middle of the US.

I love the ability to trailer easily anywhere I want to go. I wouldnt spend more than I did to sail on our puny lake.
http://www.nwk.usace.army.mil/smithvill ... e_home.htm

That being said if I lived on the coast (either) as some on the board do, I dont believe I would own a Mac. I do love my boat, its perfect for how we use it but I would want something that could sail a little stouter weather. I dont like to stop sailing for anything short of typhoon or tornado. That and I wouldnt mind something with actual staterooms (45+ ft). I posted the thread re: the telstar. I only posted that because I would love to be able to sail at a consistent 10 knots in 10mph winds. I wouldnt spend the money when a smart shopper can get a decent boat for around $5 k.

We bought our Mac 1 year old and only sailed 3 or 4 times by the original owners for the factory stripped price. (Mint) They had every factory option put on the boat that was available and then some. I dont think I'd ever find that deal again if I tripped over it. We were sold because my wife didnt want a fixer upper and neither did I.

Tom Spohn · Post by **Tom Spohn** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:55 am

I voted for 30-40K because that is what I just paid for a new M with all the bells and whistles. Having owned an X for two years, and really loved the boat, we had a good list of what we would like to stay the same and what we would like to change. A new M with a 70 hp Suzuki will cost 35K+. We originally bought our X used and sailed her for two years. Traded her for the M and got the same amount we originally paid two years ago (not counting tax). For this reason we were willing to spend a little more to get all the options we wanted on the new M. I expect it will depreciate more than the used X, but certainly not as much as a new car.

I wonder when we are daydreaming about the perfect Mac replacement if depreciation varies boat to boat.

Janusch · Post by **Janusch** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:43 am

Tom Spohn wrote:
I wonder when we are daydreaming about the perfect Mac replacement if depreciation varies boat to boat.

I think it does. In my limited experance it seems the more obscure the boat name the greater the depreciation. The more people that know the boat name the more money you can get for the boat. Here in Michigan, people know Searay, Chris Craft, and Sunsation power boats, and for sailing Hunter, Chrysler, Jeanneau, and Catalina.

I think one of the reason for the higher resale of the Macgregor is that no matter were I go, most boaters have at least heard the name before. Just yesterday someone stop me because he reconized the boat and started asking questions about it.

God Speed
Dave

Don B · Post by **Don B** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:51 am

I think the Mac does pretty good at resale time also as compared to other boats.

-Don B

Jeff S · Post by **Jeff S** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:21 pm

Tough question. I love my Mac X, but ultimately I want a boat that will cost me upwards of $80-100k (Gemini 105M or Mc-same Mftr. as Telstar). I can't afford that right now, so my Mac is the perfect solution in terms of what I want and what I can afford. So I voted not to give up my Mac at any price- at least in the price ranges that I can afford. The shallow draft, beaching, fast powering are all things I desire. At some point I will be willing to pay more ($$) when I have more. I am not willing to sell either of my houses (appreciating) to sink into a boat (depreciating) so it will have to come off savings and increased earnings.

The cost of slips for a 34' boat that has to be in the water is another issue- as is moving (I typically move every 3 or 4 years) costs. The military pays some- up to my alloted household goods weight and only what it would cost to ship normal household goods. A 34' Catamaran at ~9k# costs a bit more than ~9k# of household goods! Since I am only alloted 15k anyway (almost there w/o boat already) It would be a HUGE expense for me. Factor in the deployments and time I could actually use the boat overall and I can't justify paying more than my Mac X right now. But in the future. . .

Jeff S

mgg4 · Post by **mgg4** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:45 pm

I voted $40K-50K. Don't get me wrong. I love my X. It is a great boat for the type of boating we do. There are just a few nits I have, but I've only had her two years, and we are still trying to figure a few things out.

I would want something like the "X" or "M", but about 30' long, and about 9" wide. I know this is not trailerable, but that would be OK. The extra room would be worth it. I almost never trailer mine anyway (other than from her dry slip to the launch ramp at the marina).

Roger, you made the 65's and 70's. How about a mid-size boat in the 30-34' range? You'd have me seriously considering an upgrade, and I wouldn't have to change companies.

--Mark

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:39 pm

I sailed west Ontario and then two weeks later was on Nantucket and Martha Vineyard...living in Albany NY

...and I worked a regular job weekdays...

How many other boats could you do that with?

Stephen

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:55 pm

Wish list in hand and a house right up the hill from my private dock in my private cove on my private island, Id buy one of these!

http://www.dufouryachts.com/classic/dufour40.php

http://www.etapyachting.com/index.cfm?P ... eral&Pos=8

http://www.ipy.com/Default.php?Page=IP420

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:29 pm

Jeff S wrote: ... I love my Mac X, but ultimately I want a boat that will cost me upwards of $80-100k (Gemini 105M ... but) my Mac is the perfect solution in terms of what I want and what I can afford. ... the cost of slips for a 34' boat that has to be in the water is another issue- as is moving ...

Jeff's comment "nails" this topic in many ways. The Mac26, among very few peer vessels, sits right on the edge of a quite significant service (and cost) threshold. Smaller is too small for comfort, but larger becomes very costly in many ways.

Moorage: trailerable means that slip costs can be pushed right down to zero. Any 30-footer will cost a minimum of $2,500 per year for moorage. That's a very big nut - and it cannot be cracked without waterfrontage, costly in its own right.

Keel-boat costs: As a way of scaling this issue, consider that service costs on a $60,000 loan = just about $2500 per year. Now DOUBLE THAT for moorage, and now add insurance and bottom maintenance on a slipped keel boat. The extra costs for a 32-foot hull are significantly beyond those of a trailerable boat. And, those fancy accomodations might limit your field of view.

Versatility: Trailerability expands one's vacation horizons by magnitudes. Check out any Hunter or Catalina forum ... just try to find a "Destinations" forum as wide-spread as Bimini and Keys, to Ensenada, to Catalina and Channel Islands, to San Juans, to Apostles, to Gulf Coast. The Mac can reach them all, a keel-boat, rarely more than two such destinations.

Hybrid performance: Sailing fun, plus motoring efficiency to stretch weekends, provides a magic service package for today's time-limited, recreation-seeking middle class market. You'll count on one hand the boats that can compete with this service package ... i.e. Odin/Mast 28, Telstar 28, and a couple of prototypes.

Moving: The trailerable boat is defined by its mobility. By contrast, any larger boat will usually be left behind rather than moved. Generally, it's just too costly, and it might even serve as a good excuse to abandon a white elephant.

At least one former 26X owner traded up to a spankin' new Hunter 32. The loss of versatility, plus the costs of moorage and maintenance, placed the Hunter right onto the used boat market. The vastly better accomodations and sailing performance just didn't balance the lost versatility.

This poll could have mentioned another bracket: $60k to 75k, which is Telstar altitude. I rarely motor my 26X beyond 15 knots, but I always long to sail at 10 knots. The Telstar's motoring speed is ample, it doesn't heel, and multi-hulled sail speed is just a final bonus. Add the most foolproof folding ever designed, plus trailerability (at 5,000#), and it justifies the added cost of my current heavy-duty tow vehicle.

Granted, it's a couples' boat instead of a family boat. That narrows the market, but double-digit sailing expands the market again. It matches the Mac's versatility formula, and its sailing speed is worth the price of admission, IMO.

Mark Prouty · Post by **Mark Prouty** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:43 pm

I would trade my Mac in a heartbeat for like one of these:
Telstar

I got into my '96 with a new motor for much less than any of the options provided. I get an incredible amount of life out of it for a day off. For example (you asked for it):

What I can do when I take a Thursday (today) off:

Trailer down to Lake Mendota here in Madison, WI on Wednesday evening. Motor across the calm lake and spend the evening in downtown Madison sleeping at Picnic Point Bay. When I talk motoring, I talk fun wind in your hair motoring.

Thursday:

Motor to the Union for a quick breakfast.

Have a challenging sail that even the kids could like. That boat really flies on a reach (kid on GPS 7+ mph.)

Took my kid wake boarding.

Beached the boat at Picnic Point and explored.

Used a shallow outcropping to tie to at downtown Madison because all piers are unavailable. Lunch/explore State Street.

Swimming, cliff jumping.

Took my kid wake boarding.

Only used 6 gallons of gas.

The sailing capabilities are a good percentage of the fun but being able to get from location to location shallow boating, and water sports are significant.

The boat and trailor scream of being cheap but what other boat comes close to its capabilities for the price. I'd be willing to pay a little more for better quality. A couple of thousand quality improvements would be great.

Duane Dunn, Allegro · Post by **Duane Dunn, Allegro** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:47 pm

I agree with most of the above except that you can't make a larger mac and still have it be trailerable. If you can build this, a MC 30, and have it be trailerable there is no reason you can't make a 32' Mac and still keep all the advantages keeping it on the trailer gives you. No moorage cost, no bottom maint cost, easier maint on everything else particularly the motor. Look in the photo gallery under the Home section and you will see pictures of the MC30 on it's trailer. 30' long with a 9'6" beam. I've often seen even bigger powerboats on their trailers being launched at the local ramp, there is no reason you couldn't trailer a bigger mac style sailboat. The key is getting rid of that stupid sailboat keel.

Note check out the cool lowering front ramp in the MC30 when you beach it. 23 knots with a pair of 50hp outboards. It started life with a mast and then morphed into a power cat. Shouldn't be to hard to put the mast back on.

Still a $100k price though.

deacm · Post by **deacm** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:13 am

Duane, what are the width restrictions in your state for max width to trailer? Ours in Pennsylvania and surrounding states is a shade over 8 feet. That would be tough to sneak a MC30 past the Smokies here ;-)

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:18 am

I voted "love my Mac" too....and....I live on the coast......and.....I traded a keel boat for my Mac. Although I live on the coast, it is in a protected part of Tampa Bay, 3-4 miles from open Bay and 30 miles to the Gulf. It was just getting way too monotonous to sail the exact same area all the time. Like Frank said, you just can't trade in the versatility for better sailing performance. As long as I live here, I'll keep my Mac.

The other thing besides location which defines my Mac ownership is TIME. Raising 4 young kids and a demanding career make it virtually impossible to have the time that it takes to thoroughly enjoy a nice big keelboat. So, I can safely say that in addition to my location requirements, I wouldn't want anything other than a Mac-like boat until I'm retired and have the time (at least 12 years away). When I say Mac-like, I'm implying that I would seriously consider buying a 30 foot version of a 26X. It would need a bigger engine, perhaps something like 140HP would put it into the 25 mph crusing category and should come in a 5000# trailer package. Since there is nothing like this available, I can't vote for it, but I would hope it could be had for about $40-45K well equipped (does Roger read this board I wonder?).

I also do have an unmistakable yearning to cruise in a 40+ footer, but perhaps it makes more sense to rent one of those for a week or two every few years as opposed to buying one!

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com