First mod - would like some validation :-)

[ccarpediem]

Hi all,

I think I'm about ready for my first set of mods. I plan to add a two line reefing system, a "down haul" for the main, and run all those lines (4) aft.

I was hoping to post links to the hardware I was planning to use, but even though I seem to meet at requirements now I still cannot post links So I'll just post the product code/name and they can all be found at the mauriprosailing website if you care to look.

As this is my first time, I'd really appreciate if anyone can verify what I am planning is a good way to go and if all of the equipment seems up to the job

What I'm planning is actually very similar to the pictures I've seen via pictures posted by RandyMoon on a thread titled "Main Halyard to Cockpit on 26M" with two exceptions:

1) I will have two single blocks (instead of one) mounted to both the port & starboard base of the mast (4 blocks total). Two for reefing and two for main halyard & downhaul. I was originally planning to just use two double blocks instead of 4 singles but was thinking having a line led up the mast for the main and a line lead more toward the boom for reefing would have a double block trying to be pulled in two separate directions (does that make sense or would two doubles work you think?). The blocks I'm planning to use for all for of these are: "Harken 29 mm Carbo Single / Fixed" (HAR348).

2) Instead of turning the lines aft with deck mounted cheek blocks, I'm thinking I'll turn them aft via a double bullets mounted toward the base of the stanchion on each side. The blocks I'm planning to use for this are: "Harken Bullet Double" (HAR084).

OK, so that is the basic idea I have for getting the lines aft. Just a couple more questions I assume 5/16 double braid line will work for all of this right? Also, I'm planning to use two of Lewmar triple rope clutches to secure the lines aft ("Lewmar - Superlock D1 Rope Clutch Triple, for lines 5/16 to 3/8 (LEW29101310)"). I was thinking I'm mount these 6 inches to a foot before the line gets to the winch on each side but I realized a problem At least on a M (don't know about the X), the winches are kind of up on a platform, so I would have to mount the clutches about 3-4 inches lower than the winches. I don't use the winches often, but if I do it seems this could cause a LOT of upward pull on the clutches trying to pull them out of the deck! I think I've read something about wedges to add below the clutches in this case, but I couldn't really understand what was meant. Any info on this?

Thx!!!!!
Tony

[ccarpediem]

OK, it turns out you actually have to have MORE than 10 posts (not the even 10) to post links Here they are!

Post with RandyMoon's pictures: link

Harken 29 mm Carbo Single / Fixed: link

Harken Bullet Double: link

Lewmar - Superlock D1 Rope Clutch Triple, for lines 5/16 to 3/8: link

BTW, I'm going to also be getting a new line for the main halyard since I'm running it aft. Do you think I'll be able to raise the main faster if I get blue line?

!	kmclemore:
	fixed the long links

[Moe]

IMO, you're choosing blocks that are marginally sized for the application and could present binding problems. Preferably, I want the sheave diameter to be five times the line diameter, or 1-1/2" for 5/16" line. But it should be AT LEAST 4 times. That's the Harken Big Bullet Block series.

[ccarpediem]

Moe, thx for the feed back! I really had no idea what size to be looking for, I'll checkout some bigger ones.

Cheers!
Tony

[ccarpediem]

OK, so I think I'll go with 4 of these for the base of the mast: http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/me ... gory_Code=

Then use these for the stanchion base to turn the lines http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/me ... gory_Code=

Besides that, any thoughts on issue with mounting rope clutches? The line exits the clutches about an inch above the deck, but that would still mean it is still probably 2-2.5 inches below the winch. I'm thinking that could be a problem I found this site (http://www.indplastic.com/index.cfm?fus ... roduct=154) with HDPE sheets which I was thinking I can perhaps shape into almost a another little pedestal on each side to mount the clutches on.

[Frank C]

FWIW ... of your 4 lines aft, only the halyard would ever require using the winch. And I don't even think the winch should be necessary for that one. I don't read where you're planning to mount those clutches, but assuming you'll want to winch a line, they'd be best-placed directly fore of the winches.

HDPE has a property called "flow" that makes it less than ideal for mounting anything with considerable torque. Be sure to secure those clutches at a minimum torque to secure them, but not tight enough to compress the plastic (or the deck either). There's a fine line between leak-proofing and collapsing the sandwich structure. Don't ask why I know this.

Finally, while many owners follow your lead-paths, I have a different philosophy on the path of lines aft. The Mac decks are woefully narrow before being strung with spaghetti. That convinced me to lead my aft-lines along the jib tracks, while leaving the sidedecks unencumbered.

I've never regretted the extra investimet in Organizers. On my X it was easy to mount a Garhauer organizer atop the forward-most end of the jib track. Their device mounts with only 2 screws (as the block "axles") so it's less holes thru the deck. It also makes a clean lead to the winch, should that be a concern.

This mod showed my first implementation. I later purchased Spinlock's full-size clutches to replace the PX-cleats, while the Garhauer organizers replaced the stack of cheek blocks.

[c130king]

Tony,

Not that I could ever "validate" anything that Frank says...what he says is "gospel" to me...

But, I have an '05 with sail slugs in the main and all lines led aft. And I hardly ever used my winch. Definitely didn't need it to raise the main.

I would normally take about 3 wraps of my genoa sheets around the winch but then just pull to take in and give it a shake to let it out. I have a cam cleat to help hold the pressure on the sheet...just lift if out of the cam cleat and then the winch. However, the cam cleat is a replacement mod that has a riser to lift it about 1.5 inches or so to lift the line exiting the winch above the line going into the winch. I don't have a picture of this unfortunately.

I need the winch when it is windy and the genoa is really pulling...but I have never used my handle...just arm power.

My single line reef is on the port side and held in place by a simple cam cleat. The Halyard and "down haul" (see other recent post about "rigging a mac"...my downhaul is to lower the main and not tension the luff) are on the starboard side and held in place with a simple cam cleat with the free end wrapped around a cleat on the front of the cockpit.

The key for me to get my sail all the way to the top of the mast...and I am pretty sure it was Frank that clued me in on this...was to loosen the vang first. That enabled the last 6" or so of the main to go all the way up. Using the winch I would have probably bent something.

Just another perspective to consider.

Good luck with your mods.

Jim

[ccarpediem]

Frank C, would you happen to have a picture of your deck organizers? My initial thought was to use cheek blocks to turn the lines aft, but on the starboard side I'll have three lines (main halyard, centerboard line, and one reefing line) so I didn't think that would work. Next I thought about a deck organizer, but with how narrow that area is I thought a deck organizer would basically take up all the area anyway. So I was thinking about the blocks mounted to the stanchion thinking it would have about the same net effect as the organizer (since even with organizer I figured it would take up all of the available area) but without the need for any new holes in the deck (still a bit nervous about that ). I'd be very interested to see/here if my assumption of the organizer taking all the space and not being much different from blocks on stanchion is wrong (I really like the idea of using an organizer but was thinking I get the same result without holes).

I plan to mount the clutches probably 6-8 inches fore of the winches (probably won't be sure exactly until I get them and see what seems to work best).

I haven't actually used the winch much at all yet (never used with handle yet), just want to make sure if there ever is the need I don't pull the clutches right out of the deck. Your comment about torque is actually very interesting because I've been trying to think about if the line leading from the winch to the clutch would induce torque forces by acting as a lever trying to pry up just the front of the clutch or since the line is lead all the way through it if would be just an evenly distributed lifting force trying to pull the clutch straight up 90 degrees from the deck. Been a LONG time since my last physics course

[Catigale]

The tension in the halyard will be the same so each point will feel the same tension and a 'ripping out force' that will depend on how each block is mounted - if they were all mounted identically they would feel the same magnitude of force

Winching up a halyard is probably only needed in heavy wind when you want to depower your sails by getting them flat - a regime I rarely sail in so not my area of experience. Leon could help you here, except he's upgraded to real sails from Kelly Hanson I believe.

I do use the halyard for one thing though - my 10 year olds put my mains up with the winch, and that sight is worth a million bucks...