Removing floatation

Post by **Russ** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:59 pm

Okay, I've just started unscrewing stuff on my Mac and I'm finding Styrofoam flotation everywhere.

There's a place up hight next to the daggerboard that would make a great storage compartment but it's full of foam.
Also, in the aft corners by the rudders behind the fuel tank lockers is a large space full of foam. I'd like to put a compartment in there to store loose items.

Anyone think it's a bad idea to remove some of this stuff.

I've never really been on a boat that I didn't think could sink. The idea of a unsinkable boat is nice, but not critical to me as we do lake boating and don't expect to be offshore and stuck in 10 foot waves.

Also, our boat is new and after a long road trip there is fiberglass "powder" everywhere. Is there a better way than just vacuuming to get all this stuff up? I feel it's going to be a perpetual job for a few years until all the loose stuff falls out.

rockman · Post by **rockman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:34 am

The flotation is there for a reason - to make the boat float if it ever filled up with water. There is foam in all sorts of places. You could remove the foam and put it somewhere else - to maintain the volume of foam in the boat.

IMHO - avoid removing the foam - or relocate it if possible. I have noticed that the fibreglass does settle down and does not require as much vacuuming as much.

Cheers

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:22 am

If you are lake sailing I can see a prudent person removing it - but if thats all you are doing do you really need more stowage??

The other thing to consider is how you will handle the boat ownership down the road. I think I would document exactly how much I had removed so that a new owner could actually restore the boat to a flotation condition.

SURV1969 · Post by **SURV1969** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:50 am

I've never seen actual numbers as to how much flotation exists in a MacGegor.

Maybe there's only enough to keep a bare-bones boat afloat, in which case, once a stove, motor and anything else is added the positive floatation is compromised anyway.

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:30 pm

rockman wrote:The flotation is there for a reason - to make the boat float if it ever filled up with water. There is foam in all sorts of places. You could remove the foam and put it somewhere else - to maintain the volume of foam in the boat.

IMHO - avoid removing the foam - or relocate it if possible. I have noticed that the fibreglass does settle down and does not require as much vacuuming as much.

Cheers

Something else to note: If you do move the floatation to a lower position - like under the seats or berths, you may capsize the boat if it floods. Foam floatation is kept high in the cabin so that the hull weight will keep the semi-sunken boat upright in the water.

Post by **Russ** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:45 pm

I'm thinking of just removing a couple cubic feet of floatation. After all my junk is loaded, would it really make that much of a difference.
This way I could have a small compartment for winch handles etc and a little storage for an iPod and such.

I'm not planning on flooding the boat. Every boat I've owned would sink like a rock if it was and I planned PFDs for those situations.

baldbaby2000 · Post by **baldbaby2000** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:49 pm

For every cubic feet of foam removed you'll loose the equivalent weight of water in bouyancy. That's about 62 lbs/cubic feet. I would think you'd be OK removing a couple of cubic feet. When you get done post some photos for us.

SURV1969 · Post by **SURV1969** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:03 am

This all means nothing if there's not enough floatation to begin with.

In the Venture 25' there are 2 pieces of 5'x1.5'x1.5 pieces of foam(plus some under the V-berth.

The boat weighs about 2000+ and then one needs to add the steel Keel(almost 600 lbs). I don't know the bouyancy of fiberglass, but it can't be much.

Now add a couple of anchors, a motor and the non-bouyant weights of everything else on board.

Unless someone removed some foam before I bought the boat, there's not enough foam to keep the boat afloat.

SO . . . does anyone know just how much foam(or how much floatation) is in a late-model Mac to begin with?

Keep in mind that for a boat to truly float, there has to be an excess of flotation beyond the boat and everything in or attached to it.

If this number is critical(and close), maybe it's a really bad idea to remove positive flotation for negative flotation . . . or . . . realistically, maybe it JUST DOESN'T MATTER.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:36 am

I don't know the bouyancy of fiberglass, but it can't be much.

Its negative actually....KERPLUNK!!!

baldbaby2000 · Post by **baldbaby2000** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:36 am

I saw a Macgregor 25 totally swamped that was still buoyant. Don't know how much stuff was in it but it had a typical outboard on it. Remember that all that extra stuff, and even fiberglass, doesn't weigh as much if it becomes submerged.

Divecoz · Post by **Divecoz** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:06 pm

OK worse comes to worse your 4 fenders will more than replace the foam you might take out or. . . the 4 life jackets that you never wear because you own 6 will make up for it and on and on . Who here might be willing to test. . . . their fully loaded Mac versus the one we see in the video for floatation survival??
Not I said Divecoz as he count up his receipts. . .
BTW from what I have personally witnessed as a rescue and salvage diver, flotation . . . involves a lot of variables .

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:47 am

Your life jackets only have about 10 pounds of flotation - they only need to bump a human (mostly water) to the top with a bit of flotation force.

the hard part with using floation like jackets and fenders is that the have to be firmly attached to something or else they just float away of course.

Post by **NiceAft** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:41 am

I have been following this thread with interest, and I did not know why until a short time ago. I suddenly realized that I may not have any flotation under the V berth.

When I purchased Nice Aft, I wanted to have it come complete. Just the way I wanted it. So, I ordered everything I wanted, and had the dealer install what the factory did not do. One of the things I wanted was water storage. The dealer told me what he had, and recommended the storage to be under the V berth. I said fine. Now I'm following this thread, and suddenly have a thought

, Did he remove flotation to create room for water storage

Is my boat now a dangerous vessel

The bladder is forward of the storage area where the air escape vent is for the ballast. I now have to get into the boat and see, and I won't be able to do that until the weekend

Ray

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:07 am

The not knowing is the worst, isnt it? Maybe call your dealer up on the phone and have him/her tell you, not in writing, what they did.

How big of a bladder did you have put in Ray? From there we can calculate how much foam you should put on board to compensate.

That was my exact motivation above for documenting whatever you decide to do.

Trouts Dream · Post by **Trouts Dream** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:34 am

Extra flotation could be had by placing a few extra auto-inflation life jackets in strategic locations.

Money is no object

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Removing floatation

Removing floatation