Sunk?

[Jim Cate]

Regarding a second meaning of the word, does anyone know of a Mac 26 (M or X) actually sinking? I'm aware that the floatation is effective to keep it afloat under most conditions, but are there instances in which heavy seas or accidents have resulted in sufficient damage to one of the boats such that the hull is compromised and the floatation is insufficient to keep the boat afloat?

Jim Cate

[Frank C]

Not that I ever recall reading about. But how much more damage would it take? Roger has drilled a hole through at least 2 of his hulls, and photographed the results. Even if those were overwashed with heavy seas, they'd remain at the surface.

Another Mac was T-boned by a powerboat, crushing the rubrail. but those pics were taken on the trailer. I guess that one didn't sink either.

I suppose a boat could be overloaded the the extent that it sank ... but consider this. I have 6 or 8 of the basic "guest" PFDs stowed under the aft berth. I also have a couple of the dense foam float mats for lazy, hot afternoons on the lake. Just that list of spares would offset my 360 lbs of Suzuki, eh?

Much of what we stow has some inate buoyancy. Seems to me that as long as Roger's foam supports the main Mac hull, plus 4 guys standing on the cabintop, I think it would be very difficult to overload it enough to sink. And if you somehow chopped the hull in half, I bet your result would be TWO nav-hazards, instead of one.

[tangentair]

I was waiting for one of the experts, like Frank to weigh in on this before I commented. I looked at the Coast Guard stats and they do not list manufacturer and BoatUS has info but I could not find anything on the MAC. (A negative search does not make it conclusive) However, it has been my experience that if I have to prove that something won't sink under me, the person I am trying to convince doesn't really want an answer. When my wife asks if it is safe for my son to do something, it just means if I say go ahead, all the blame is on my head for anything he does but she will take any credit 'cause she let him do it.

[pokerrick1]

What Frank said. I looked at Macs for 15 years before I bought my M and I never heard of one sinking. Like Frank said - - - saw a Mac in half and you'd have two nav hazards instead of one.

I hope MIKE INMON weighs in on this. He would probably know for sure. I'll call him.

Rick

[mikelinmon]

No, it won't sink. there is plenty of foam floatation for your supplies and the boat and motor, even a big motor. The floatation is mostly in the bow, up high, the center up high and the stern, up high. I bet you could saw out a section between the bow and center, lets say the head compartment, that might sink. Maybe a section between the table and mid of the rear bunk, that might sink. But if you cut it into 3 equal parts, each one could be your lifeboat. Your wife in one , kids in one and you can have one by yourself! They don't sink, no matter what!
MIke Inmon

[pokerrick1]

You're Welcome

Rick

[Russ]

This is a good question.

With all that foam everywhere (even the mast) putting all of it on the bottom would be difficult. As Mike said, maybe in pieces, but you'd always have some big chunk that floats.
Nice to know, but I always expected my Hunter to sink like a rock it it got a hole. I never sailed believing that the boat would be my life raft.

What I would like to know is how easy is it to capsize a Mac.
I've seen the case with 11 people on top, fat stupid and drunk as a skunk captain and empty ballast flipping over. But it seems like it would be hard to flip one of these boats under normal circumstances.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

Thread Subject: I for one hope the Mac wont sink, since that's one of the safety reasons Im comfortable with the Mac. In addition, my extra PFDs, and the cushions are aboard when sailing with the thoughts of further flotation protection. The factory video shows the flooded Mac afloat without an engine, so I figure all the cushions, and extra PFDs should compensate for the engine.

Jim Cate: We've been missing you at the Marina

[tangentair]

Has to do with the water ballast - if full I believe that you might be able to lay it on its side but not turtle it, the ballast would self right the thing. However, speaking from experience, turns at high speed with the centerboard and rudders down will lay it over very quickly, especially if the ballast is empty, full sail in high winds will also send it tipping. There was some video of several of the regular posters out in rather brisk conditions a while back and they were leaning quite well. It has been often reported that properly configured the M and I suppose the X as well sails best with about 15 to 20 degrees of tilt. It helped me to put a clinometer on the hatch cover so I could see the heel and trim to keep it around 20. Practice, practice, practice helps too

[DaveB]

My Max. X has styrofoam that is not closed cell foam but should keep the boat afloat for at least 8hrs or more before water penetrates the foam and the balance of positive flotation decreaces.
One can pore a two part closed cell foam mixture in cavities or replace the styrofoam but would recommend a Proffesional (can be messy). Most people use this two part for Ice boxes to increase insulation as I have done in past.
So far in the 3 Mo. I owned the Mac.X and some 7 trips I would agree the Mac. sails best under 20 degrees of List and better at 15 degrees in all points of sail except downwind.
I have seen both Vidios of the Mac.x and M and none describes if ballast is in and rudders down along with centerboard or daggerboard so the 165 lb pressure Rodger demonstrated don't mean crap for a intellegent pressure.
Or more inportant, when they flooded the boat in a hole they put in the bottom, where was the hole put in? The ballast,outside of ballast and was the ballast full of water when testing.
I love the boat but these ? are not answered.
Dave

Has to do with the water ballast - if full I believe that you might be able to lay it on its side but not turtle it, the ballast would self right the thing. However, speaking from experience, turns at high speed with the centerboard and rudders down will lay it over very quickly, especially if the ballast is empty, full sail in high winds will also send it tipping. There was some video of several of the regular posters out in rather brisk conditions a while back and they were leaning quite well. It has been often reported that properly configured the M and I suppose the X as well sails best with about 15 to 20 degrees of tilt. It helped me to put a clinometer on the hatch cover so I could see the heel and trim to keep it around 20. Practice, practice, practice helps too

[Pacamac-uk]

Unless I've forgotten some basic principle of my engineering training surely the water in the ballast tank will have no impact on whether a boat will sink or not once flooded?

The water, whether in the ballast or in the boat does not contribute to the actual sinking of the boat as it is neutral with respect to the water in which it was floating! It is only the weight of the boat that you are trying to keep bouyant and that is done by trapping air in foam of bouyancy bags, etc.

The ballast is only there to resist the forces on the sails which will try to lift one side of the hull out of the water.

If you're worried about sinking as stated previously add some bouyancy in some form.

[Trouts Dream]

Basic engineering principle: A container (ballast tank) full of air is a lot more bouyant than one full of water.

[John McDonough]

The Macgregor will not sink.
the Titanic will not sink either.

There is always a worst case senerio. A fire, crushed against rocks, squeezed between Icebergs, or an explosion.

When I bought my X, the first thing I did was upgrade my foam. I rearranged the blocks under the V-berth and used spray foam to make it one big solid foam block. Even If I punctured the hull under the V-berth it would not take on much water. I hope. I also forced spray foam into the Areas between the hull and liner and under the rear bearth area. The foam also eliminated vibration noise while motoring.

Just because your paranoid, doesnt mean you cant sink...

[Catigale]

Unless I've forgotten some basic principle of my engineering training surely the water in the ballast tank will have no impact on whether a boat will sink or not once flooded?

When the make 'heavy water' they leave 'light water' behind..principle of conservation of matter of course.

Use this light water in your ballast tank and you will be all set.

[pokerrick1]

The Macgregor will not sink.
the Titanic will not sink either.

There is always a worst case senerio. A fire, crushed against rocks, squeezed between Icebergs, or an explosion.
...

Rest assured that if your Mac is in a thousand pieces - - - they definately WILL NOT ALL SINK

Rick