Rounding up (weather helm)

[Frank C]

... The Mac handles very poorly in following seas if you are moving slower than the current. The waves will bat the stern arround all over the place. Try the iron genny and get your speed up faster than the waves and she will handel a lot better. Otherwise you will be fighting the helm the entire way.

And not just the MACs. ALL boats have this problem to some degree, for very good reasons. However, it's less severe when a boat has a full-length keel rather than just foils.

As a wave overtakes the stern, the flow across the 'boards' (CB, daggerbd and rudder) is reversed. That means the foils have lost all lift, and become just "boards" hanging under the hull. Since the wave is rarely directly aligned with your heading, it also pushes the stern and the "hanging boards" to one side, thereby altering your heading.

Tony's correct .... you must keep your speed faster than the waves to maintain foil action and directional control. If you're under sail that's impossible, so there's no other choice but to 'manage' your helm to the water's influences.

[bastonjock]

frank/tony, thats what i ended up doing,i dropped in the motor and ran at 2000 rpm with the main up,it gave me much better control,i was sailing against the tail end of the tide and had 4ft waves coming up my stern,it seemed the instinctive thing to do,use the engine,

[RickJ]

Scott & Boblee - your comments on the asym cruising chute are interesting. I kinda have one on my wish-list, but I've not seen one in use. My current foresail is a jib, I'm not a fan of genoas, but I'd like something a bit more powerful for downwind.

I get the impression that it's quite handy even when well off the wind, how far off a run would you say it can be used - as far as a beam reach?

It looks from Scott's pics that it's sheeted same as a genny - is that correct? So unlike a true spinnaker it crosses inside the forestay rather than having to be gybed in front - I guess at a push you can tack with it on?

How is hoisting and furling handled - can it be done single-handed?

So many questions ...

Thanks, Rick

[Kelly Hanson East]

Beam reach ok

Sheeted like genny

You can tack with it.

Ive done it single handed, not gracefully, but if the wind is up enough to really muck it up I wouldnt be using the spin anyway.

Any dealer has them or can get them from factory, we also carry our C2000 Spin from our own loft if you want some more options.

(pm or em off Board to contact us of course)

[Scott]

Rick, rather than retyping what has come before follow a few of these links.

This one has a description of how we handle the sail, and used to handle the sail. As well as some gratuitous post padding.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... highlight=

Discussion on Chute scoop

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... highlight=

Discussion on mac Asym.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... highlight=

[delevi]

I too have experienced the problem with following seas and found a couple of techniques very useful. 1. Pull up the daggerboard about 3/4, leaving maybe a foot of it down. When knocked off course, the board tends to trip up the boat and send it into a broach. 2. Drop the main and ride the headsail only. I found that the leverage of the wind hitting the main combined with a quartering wave hitting you in the same direction can lead to broaching. Implementing these two techniques and steering with some degree of anticipation helps a lot without resorting to running the engine.

Cheers,
L.

[jaguar496]

although we are neophytes, from what i've read, the BEAUTY of having a MACPOWERSAILER, is to be able to use both methods of powering when necessary, for comfort and control. Then again, gas is $4.50 a gallon in HAIGHT-ASHBURY stew of Alice and Stew,"THE RESTLESS TWO"

[Beam's Reach]

Rick J

If you don't have any choice, single handed with the spin isn't much of a problem if you take your time and think it through on a day without too much wind. You want enough to fill the spin and keep it from dropping in the water, but that's about all for your first time out.

But having someone else take the helm while you rig the spin will make it easier for the first few times, then you'll feel more comfortable alone.

[ronacarme]

1. Rounding up into the wind at 30 degree heel angle....My 26X and my old 26D and Venture 17 would tend to do his to a greater or lesser degree. The Venture could not be prevented from rounding up when heel angle reached 40-45 degrees or so. Increasing weather helm and rounding up tendency seems to be a matter of underwater hull shape becoming assymetric and sail area center of effort shifting far to leeward of hull center line to create a large turning moment, as the boat heels excessively. I can reduce weather helm by moving the CLR aft by raising the centerboard a bit, with weatherhelm due to running with main only, and so presumably also due to modest degrees of heel. However, I tend to sail my X at not more than 20-25 degrees heel and adjust CB angle to balance the steering with the sail combination then in use.
2.Sailing downwind in big waves...... That wide, substantially immersed stern on the X is easily pushed sideways by a large quartering wave and pulled back the other way by the following trough.....I sometimes steer back and forth to compensate, but often leave the wheel set on the desired average course and let the boat zig-zag along it. The D was only a little less sensitive to quartering waves, and I can recall rowing the tiller back and forth like an oar to try to closely maintain course. One could avoid sailing downwind in more than 2 foot waves or buy a boat with a canoe stern, I suppose, if one cannot live with this problem.
Ron

[vkmaynard]

See: vkmaynard setup page 1, works great!

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... oose+gauge

Victor

[Frank C]

You absolutely should tune your rig to match average conditions in your area. For SF Bay, that means reducing mast rake from Roger's 4 degrees so it's closer to 2 degrees. We lose some pointing ability, but have more control in gusty conditions.

However, when the boat is heeling to 40+ degrees, mast rake can't help you. The rudder bite in the water is now on that same angle, and any slight change in attitude (even just a passing wave) can cause the rudder to push the bow right onto the wind.

That's why a gonzo vang can help the 26X in heavy winds. It pulls down the boom, stretching the main as flat & tight at possible .... thereby helping to reduce heel. Controlling heel is just as important as adjusting mast rake.

[RickJ]

After another day out in similar winds earlier this week, I found that trimming the CB back made a huge improvement. I had the line pulled in about 6-8" for best effect. I could sail a steady course in 12 kt wind (or 14 kt with one reef) at about 60* off the wind. Typically making 5-6 kts.

[cuisto]

how about under headsail only, as i understand she wond round up then??

[RickJ]

how about under headsail only, as i understand she wond round up then??

Absolutely true, wouldn't heel so far, so little chance of rounding up. Also wouldn't go as fast either!

And when you're sailing against a 3-4 kt tide, if you can't make at least 3-4 kts through the water you're standing still or going backwards - speed matters.

Cheers, Rick

[Trouts Dream]

Isn't that what the "iron genny" is for?