New Furler--HELP it won't furl

[balikai]

Hi All,

I have a 08 with Roger's new jib furler, but for the life of me and my admiral we cannot get it to furl in higher winds (10 +knots). This is the furler that has the "open drum", basically 4 bolts holdng the top and bottom portion of the drum (wheras the CDI is enclosed with a 2 - 3 inch opening on the side where the furl line exits). Being new to the furling scene I suspect that we may be doing something wrong.

The furling drum and furling line are all appropriately aligned. The line comes directly back to the cockpit via fairleads on the port side. I can sheet out the jib until the proverbial cows come home. The furling line winds on the drum like it was designed to do. The jib blade and lines aloft do no appear to be fowled, but alas once out, the jib stays out.

We have tried heading into irons so the jib is luffing like crazy, but there still must be too much tension as I cannot get the sail to budge. I end up going forward and then hand starting the furling process. UGH!!! I might as well have got a hank on jib

Is the standard procedure to bear away on broad reach or run with main blanketing the jib? How do you experts furl your jibs? Am I just being naive to think that a furler can work if we luff the jib enough on a beam, close reach I can furl?

Any insights, especially from those of you that have the new furler, is most appreciated.

Bart

[MARK PASSMORE]

Mine didn’t furl when I got my new from the dealer and it was because the dealer had it rigged wrong at the top of the mast. It was getting hung up. I would suggest that when the mast is lowered that you check the rigging. I had to remove one of the pulleys. The dealer just left the original jib sale pulley there when he added the Genoa. Also check the crimping of the forestay. If you were trying to force it to furl the forestay cable may be stressed. Mine was and the dealer replaced it.
Also you may want to check the turnbuckle, The pins may be getting in the way somehow. It should furl very easy I think but I am very new to this and can only tell you what happen to me. Good Luck.

[RickJ]

You should be able to just release the jib sheets so the jib is flapping (any point of sail), then haul on the furling line and it will wind up. (Well, rather than completely release them clip the ends into the cam cleats so you don't have to climb forward to retrieve them - and ensure you have stopper knots.)

I agree with Mark, if the furler won't start to rotate by pulling on the line then there must be some jamming or excess friction somewhere. The furler should rotate very easily on the forestay.

[Kelly Hanson East]

I have to say I think the CDI is a better piece of kit, especially with the genny. Im trying to see if we can still offer this on our boats. Other customer option is to get a hank on and upgrade later.

[Pacamac-uk]

Is the furling line wrapped around the drum a turn or two when the jib is fully out? Could it be that the line is fully extended and therfore has no turning motion to apply to the drum when you start to haul it in if you see what I mean?

[c130king]

Also, look up and see if the jib halyard is wrapped up around the sail as you furl/un-furl. My halyard, and others that I have seen, are connected down at the base of the mast or to the bow pulpit. But if slightly loose they can catch on the jib as it starts to furl/un-furl and wrap around the whole thing and bind the system up. This seems to happen up near the top of the sail where the furler connects to the mast/hound.

Been there done that a few times...

Good luck,
Jim

[balikai]

Thanks all for the feedback, this site is great. Nothing like having instant feedback on problems.

When this problem started I had the rigging rechecked by IdaSailor (since I live down the road from them), and they said it looks fine. I did have them add a custom carbon fiber cup at the top of the jib that keeps the jib block/halyard from wrapping on the jib blade/forestay. When I have checked this while sailing I can't see the jib halyard wrapping on the jib. It must be a "no see um" issue and something else is obvioiusly binding it up in the higher winds.

I have been securing the jib halyard to the mast, but I may try to secure it to the pulpit to start eliminating obvious issues.

BB

[kadet]

I have only had my 08 out a few times and have had the furler bind twice. On the first occasion I did not have time to search for the problem and just hand furled it by turning the foil. On the second occasion I took a good look to find out what the heck was going on because this would not be a good thing in an emergency.

What I found was the crappy thin line was riding over itself creating a crossed turn jamming the drum. A quick turn by hand of the foil freed it and it furled easily with the line.

I think the fix for this will be to get better quality line a bit thicker as there is plenty of room on the drum and to apply a bit more resistance to the furling line when setting the genny.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Good news - CDI will work with us direct so we can offer this as an option or upgrade.

The price on the FF2 has fallen in the last year - you can get it online for about 450 USD with the bearing upgrade (I recommend that with genny especially) - and believe it or not, they can ground ship that to you. Follow instructions to unravel the extrusion.

CDI is in the sailing capital of the world in Homer, NY

DOH!!!

Keywords Furler upgrade CDI FF2

[Obelix]

I had the same issue, when I first used my furler. For the live of me it would not furl back up. After a little contemplating, I came to the conclusion that I had left the line to loose when I pulled the sail out and that caused the binding. Since then, I keep tension on the furler line when I pull the sail out and had never problems again rolling it in. Maybe this may help you too.

[balikai]

Thanks everyone for their insights.

I appeared to have figured out the problem. 1. As mentioned the stock furling line is wayyyyy too small. It gets pinched between the silver drum and the bottom of the black plastic drum. It will also pinch at the top between the two screws that hold the plastic foil and the silver spacer. Replaced with a 1/4 inch line.

2. Most important--there are no bearings or smooth surfaces between the silver drum and the white inner plasitic sleeve. It is metal on plastic and plastic on plastic
The not-so-obvious-but-simple solution: Tri Flow and bit of grease. The admiral and I could not believe the difference. We could furl in the jib with two long pulls on the furler. Prior to that is was a chore using the winch, cussing, and going forward to furl by hand.

Mind you, we troubleshot and tested this on trailer with very light winds. The boat will be on the water this weekend so the real test is forthcoming.

Kelley Hanson East: So, do you "guarantee" the effectiveness and smooth operation of the FF2 based upon your experience? Send me a PM so we can chat. The idea of having actual bearings (why don't they all? I know--it is cost) is the direction I would like to go.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Kelley Hanson East: So, do you "guarantee" the effectiveness and smooth operation of the FF2 based upon your experience? Send me a PM so we can chat. The idea of having actual bearings (why don't they all? I know--it is cost) is the direction I would like to go.

Sure, if I installed it on your boat and aligned the critical angles of the furler line to the spool.... ...but if you buy any furler and dont put in on right, thats not the furler's fault.

Seriously, the FF2 falls into the 'proven' category in my book. That and the service you get from CDI in terms of manual and parts make it a winner in my book.

I think jib FF2 (plastic bearing) combo is fine

Genny FF2 with Torlon bearing is a good combo

And any of our KH gennys, which are 20-35% heavier than the Doyle OEM sails, should definitely have the FF2 with bearing

[Highlander]

I had a look at my 08 Mac furler back in early march I do believe the CDI bearing will retrofit into it. I was planning on doing this mod or at least checking it out when I am finnished with my bowsprit mod. I can not see how your furling line can jam between the drum & plastic housing ! as you can see in this pic you should always keep some tension on the furling line when unfurling no matter what make furler you have as the new Mac furler is basicaly a knock off of the CDI furler but with an open drum which I think is much better than the closed drum because when the furling line gets tanged or twisted inside that closed drum it is pita to get at to un knot .
KHE I dont know how you can be objective on the new Mac furler when you have not even tried or seen one !!! it is obvious to me just by reading these previous postings that the most likely problems are inexperience & or improper installation


I am still waiting to see pic's of Terry's new sch 700 furler before deciding on what furler to buy for my genny installation out on my bowsprit !

J

[Kelly Hanson East]

KHE I dont know how you can be objective on the new Mac furler when you have not even tried or seen one !!!

Im sorry I must defend my objectivity by stating that I have seen it up close (most recently in April), I have not sailed with it, correct.

I would offer that anyone who looks at the two side by side would reach a similar conclusion.

I have to say I think the CDI is a better piece of kit, especially with the genny

I think that statement is qualified as my opinion fairly clearly. I recommend the CDI furler with the bearing for anyone who will use a genny - I think the post proposing upgrading the Mac furler to a real bearing supports my advice there.

I will accept your criticism that I have not personally sailed with the Mac furler as valid.

We do offer both, and the margin on the CDI furler to us is less. I do believe thats called a smoking gun.

On edit - Jeesh - I shouldve had a cup of coffee before I wrote that - not that it was defensive or anything...

[Highlander]

KHE

I am not trying to criticise you just offering my two cents worth as I have purchased one myself but still yet to try it out, but yes I do agree with you for a Genny the mac furler should have a bearing kit but I will have to try it out first but my experience with the CDI furler makes me think that a bearing kit would be better for the mac furler for use with a Genny.

Terry
Please some pic's your killing me !
J