SOS started my honda 50 with the emergency rope lastnight

[Québec 1]

Was out on the Saint Lawrence River last night on a fishing trip . Got to my fishing grounds around 21hrs and had to change gas tanks. 2003 Honda 50 a went out during the tank exchange and would not start again. Did all the regular procedures but nothing worked. Had power on the boat but the motor would not even make a peep when keyed to start.

Took the cover off and the 4 bolts that hold the plastic casing and put the rope on and started her in 5 tries. Then it started raining...but we kept on fishing anyhow...didi not catch anything. motored back to the marina around 11pm and once the motor stopped it would not start again. Took the cover off the motor and checked if the fuses were ok ..yes they were . Put my screw driver on the dohikies that start the motor and the power was there. The motor did its standard starting whirll. (obviously i am not a mecanic so patience with my terms please)


Conclusion the power gets to the motor. the batteries hold power. There must be something wrong in between.

Does any one have a wiring diagram for the side bar control box?
Has anyone had this problem?

Q1

[Hardcrab]

Two bonehead questions first.
A "man overboard"kill switch engaged? (been there, done that)
Throttle in neutral? (also been there, got the t shirt)
The first thing lets you grind away on the starter until the battery dies.
The second makes the starter circuit quit all together.

It's good news that the starter relay screwdriver trick works.
You know what isn't broken.

[Québec 1]

Two bonehead questions answered first.
A "man overboard"kill switch engaged? (been there, done that) No thats not the problem
Throttle in neutral? (also been there, got the t shirt) No, didn't get the T-shirt for that one yet
The first thing lets you grind away on the starter until the battery dies. Just goes click , click so thats not the prob.
The second makes the starter circuit quit all together.

Got my mecanic to come check it out this afternoon while I'm picking up my youngest girl from the Army base ( summer time cadet corporal who needs a weekend at home urgently)

Thanks for the input
Q1

[tangentair]

Based on everything you have said, I would look for a bad switch/circuit wiring on the key switch, sounds like your dropping the voltage across the switch circuit instead of at the starter - hope your mechanic finds it quickly for you.

[Québec 1]

Based on everything you have said, I would look for a bad switch/circuit wiring on the key switch, sounds like your dropping the voltage across the switch circuit instead of at the starter - hope your mechanic finds it quickly for you.

My mechanic will be checking the voltage everywhere but also seems to think its probably the key switch, but will not say until he checks it out. He also has an emergency micro switch which can be connected on the motor while waiting for a part if I have to. I believe i will be going here
http://www.canoe.com/divertissement/art ... /feux2.jpg
as planned tomorrow night.

Night sailing on the Mac is just an incredible experience. We were travelling at around 6 knots with the tide at 1900rpms with a full moon peeking behind the clouds. Docking perfectly at 11pm with the other boaters looking on was just a wonderful experience. I

[Retcoastie]

Going "click" makes me think the switch is working, otherwise, what prompts the "click"?

On a car, that click would mean the solenoid has engaged. When the click goes and the started does not, it is almost always a bad starter, most often bad brushes. The other choices being the solenoid contacts themselves are bad or there is enough current from the battery to operate the solenoid but not the starter. That is easily checked by jumping the solenoid connectors and seeing if the started spins.

I'm betting the switch is good and the started or the main battery cable wire connectors are bad.

But, what do I know? Inquiring minds want to know and learn.

Ken

[cuisto]

Had simmilar sounding problem with my Merc 50. Loose conection. Mechanic coulnd find the problem and said i needed a new starter but they were on back order. So i took the starter to an old mechanic that tinkers with stuff, he gave it a clean bill of health. Turns out that there was a lose nut where the the battery leads enter the engine. I would try tighterning all terminal conections. mine hade enough contact to CLICK and engage the starter but not enough juice to turn the flywheel. I would be willing to bet a big plate of poutine ,a lean smoked meat sandwich and 3 kosher dills that therin lies your problem.
Cuisto

[Don T]

Hello,
If I'm reading this properly, the motor cranks but does not start. Problem could be that there is no spark when cranking, assuming it is a carburetted model. If not, maybe no fuel during cranking. Either or both of these can be caused by low voltage at the motor while cranking or a bad switch. The wiring diagram may show a "start" wire going to the ignition module that may be faulty. Electronic ignition / fuel injection modules will not funtion properly if the voltage at the motor gets below 10V during cranking and shut down completely at 8.5V. Since it started by using the rope, voltage or the switch are my best guess.

[Québec 1]

Mechanic checked it out and determined 2 things.
1. Power does not get past the neutral switch
2. Batteries are not charging well ( under 10amps).


My conclusion: I have kept a 12volt fridge going when ever I'm on shore power. If I unplug my fridge and put it back in the car where it belongs and according to Tom D, my batteries will charge correctly ...more than 10 amps ...my carburetor model 2003 4 stroke honda 50 A will start and the problem will go away.

Or

I have to replace the control panel cause the neutral switch which is built in is fried.

OR NOT

What do you think?

Q1

[Hamin' X]

Can you install a manual bypass switch for the neutral switch. Just a thought.

Rich

[Hardcrab]

FOR TEST ONLY.
If it was my boat, I would not hesitate to place a jumper wire across the neutral interlock switch.
The jumper wire will make the switch null and void, and it should start. If not, further troubleshooting is called for.

If it does start, and if it was my boat, I would leave the jumper in place, and then be responsible and careful to ensure a Neutral throttle each and every time I started the boat.
I do that now anyhow.

This would not be a very good answer for the faint of heart.

At some point, during the off season, I would take the control box apart and attempt a repair. Finding a broken wire, corrosion, or pitted contacts seem repairable to me versus complete control box replacement, IMHO.

[Québec 1]

I unplugged the 12 v fridge. Took my time putting the control box back together and on the pedestal and tried to start the motor. I got 1 click sound the first time then nada. I'm right unhappy at this moment . I will put a switch directly on the motor on Monday, and consult . I would like to know what made this neutral switch all at once stop working. I sure hope this doesn't happen again. last week broken daggerboard this week dead neutral switch...not my ideal of a good time.. I imagine the word will be going around soon that I bought a lemon.Q1

[NiceAft]

My nephew had a bib which stated "SPIT HAPPENS". Keep your cool. This kind of spit happens to us all. Just at different times.

Ray

[Hamin' X]

After reading you posts again, I do not believe that you have a faulty neutral switch. Although I'm not familiar with your Honda, There are two common ways that power is delivered to the starter.

1) Ignition switch actuates a starter relay at the motor that is separate from the starter. This relay in turn connects the battery to the starter solenoid which engages the starter drive to the flywheel.

2) Starter relay is integrated into the starter solenoid and the ignition switch directly activates the entire unit.

You indicate that you can crank the engine by jumping some leads on the "dohikies". If this is so, then the starter is good. You also say that you hear a click when trying to start the engine with the key. If this click is coming from the engine and you have the separate starter relay, then the relay is bad (Read cheap fix). If the relay is integral, then not so cheap.

I guess that more info is needed from you, or someone more familiar with the Hondas.

Rich---Hamin' X---N7ZH

[Don T]

Hello,
OK, I'm confused. Did he not say that the motor cranked but did not start? That cannot be a neutral switch because it normaly interrupts the starter. Although, if the voltage is low then the switch is seeing more current. The man overboard switch will allow the motor to crank without starting.