Grand Bahama trip(changed to Bimini trip,May19-26,2006)

[BK]

Tim Z and I were talking during our Catalina trip about making a big trip to the Bahamas in spring 2006. Since it is so far for us to go from California and we want to see and do everything in the Bahamas, we thought a two week boat cruising trip should do it. I know this far off and things can change but it is a long haul and will be a one time big Bahama boat trip. Anyone interested in going? We will be doing the great loop starting at the West end of Grand Bahama which is 50 miles from Fort Lauderdale. There is a new marina there at the west end. X & M's.
Actually, it would be best if we could join the Maimi Mac's or Conch Cruiser's as they know the area.

[Roy B. Highland]

Bob, as we were discussing on Catalina, a trip to the Bahama's sounds wonderful. BUT.... Bimini is the pits. Nothing there. Easy to get to but then a hull of a long sail/motor to get To Nassau on New Providence Island. The Abacos are the place to be. Marsh Harbor, Green Turtle Cay, Man of War harbor, Hope Town. Just to name a few. Two weeks would do it. You have to get to West End on Grand Bahama, check in and sail the flats to the Abacos. Going via Bimini would be a month's trip.
It would be a better sail/motor from Ft Lauderdale to West End on Grand Bahama. It's about sixty some miles as the gull flies. ( More when you have to Triangulate). ( where's spell check on this site?)
Leave at dusk and get there next morning doing hull speed.
We were thinking it might be possible to get our boats on their trailers on a cargo ship out of Ft Lauderdale and having it shipped on deck to West End or Freeport if you didn't want the sail over. Lots more time to spend in the Abacos and less white knuckles for the faint of heart. Bahamian cargo boats leave daily. Don't know the costs, but it's an idea.
How about some input from the Fla sailers who have done it. I know Chip talked about this on his site. He'd be the one to contact at Conch Cruisers.
Where the hull is spell-check on this thing?????
Roy "Salty Dog" Highland

[BK]

Roy, great advice, Fort Lauderdale is the same distance to the Bahamas as Maimi to Bimini. Can you make the trip? I think I would like to try to motor over. I read the Northerly winds are about over in the spring so the Gulf Stream should be calmer. I think May would be a good time to go.
Chip, Roy mentioned you were thinking about doing this itenerary. Can you make it down that time of year? I was thinking about getting a radar for the San Juans as there is a lot of fog, is there any use for one in the Bahamas?

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Bob, I think radar would be useful anywhere. The later you go, the more chance you can start running into thunderstorms etc.

I think its great that some of the left coasters would consider going all the way to the Bahamas. May would probably be a great time of year. Earlier in the season (Feb/Mar), you are probably gonna get a lot of excess wind. It will start moderating in April. Late April/Early May is probably optimum as temperatures will start getting pretty warm by late May and early June. Of course, if you are trying to get a trip in with school aged kids, they don't usually get out until late May.

Are you thinking of trailering or getting your boats shipped across the country? I guess trailering would be a heck of a lot of driving. I would seriously consider joining you as well as the 2005 Conchcruiser's trip that is in the works.

[BK]

Dimiti, hope you can make the trip, we need some local imput. We are trailing across the country as Tim Z. wants to see the north east coast and I want to go on to the Keys.
What trip is in the works for the Conch Cruisers?

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The Conchcruisers are planning a back to Bimini trip in June 2005.

[Chip Hindes]

Roy, great advice, Fort Lauderdale is the same distance to the Bahamas as Maimi to Bimini.

It's actually not close. Round numbers, Bimini is about 50 miles from Miami, Freeport 75 from Ft Lauderdale. With boats the size of the Mac, some even larger, many people believe going directly to Grand Bahama from the States is not wise. It is be better to hit Bimini first as an intermediate destination, then continue on. We've talked about longer trips, but it's never gotten further than the talking stage. The primary reason seems to be the amount of time. Ten days seems to be about the limit for many. The way we have done it and plan to do it again next year is one day to launch, one day transit each way, under power, four days in Bimini. We build in three contingency weather days, for a total of ten; if those aren't necessary we cruise the Keys.

Bimini is a good 12 hours at reasonable speed, with the Gulf Stream; last year it was 16 hours coming back against the Stream with a ten knot headwind. You could do it faster at high speed in an M or X but that will not be pleasent and will use a lot more fuel in order to gain a few hours.

If you want to go any further than Bimini we figured at least four more days, and at some point you have to decide whether the fact that the transit days begins to exceed the days in port makes it worthwhile.

In the past, there hasn't been enough interest in the longer trip, though this year there's a "splinter" group talking of taking the extra days and doing the Abacos.

To that you have to add trailering days; it's six (both ways) for me. With the "ten" day trip, for me it's sixteen days total; although I'd like to I don't get enough vacation to do a longer trip.

It's going to be 12 days +/-trailering from the left coast.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Chip, I hope I can join you guys next summer. I don't completely agree with your figures though. Most people in small cruisers who go to Grand Bahama stop at West End first and that crossing is probably only 10-12 statute miles longer than a Bimini crossing. Spend one less hour on I-95 and another hour or two on the crosssing....you end up much closer to Abaco than you do if you go to Bimini first. Outside of the Conchcruisers, there are quite a few stories of Mac's making the Northern crossing safely.

Of course, what is difficult with a relatively short pre-planned trip like CC is the ability to choose really good weather...I expect there is always a tendency to leave as soon as possible and stay as long as possible within reason. You have a very reasonable plan for the weather but if there were a few more days leeway in the scheduling and you could pick calmer days for the crossing, I don't see why you shouldn't exploit the high-speed capability of our powersailors. Knocking 6-8 hours off a crossing is not a bad thing and also greatly diminishes the extra 10-12 miles to get to Grand Bahama which is so much bigger than Bimini with so much more to do, etc.

There seems to be a pretty high deviation in types of weather enountered on the Gulf Stream...from glassy as a river to pure hull...and everything in between. Some people will make all-night crossings to get smoother water too. Have the Conchcruisers discussed the possibility of breaking up the crossing into two groups (ie. the higher speed Macs and the conventional speed sailboats)? Even in situations where it doesn't stay calm for long, if you can find a nice calm early morning (or better yet, start a few hours before the sun comes up) and high speed power your way 2/3 of the way across before the wind picks up, it would be a lot more fun sailing the last 20 miles than if you had to make the whole crossing slowly. And who cares about gas, as long as you have at least 24 gals, you aren't gonna have any problem making it to a marina...I'll take the speed anyday.

[Chip Hindes]

Dimitri:

Hope to see you next year. However...

To take advantage of the high speed capability all the boats in the group have to be capable of that speed. The fact is, the past two trips the majority of the boats were not Xs and Ms with 50HP. The advantages of travelling in a group are lost if half or more of the group is left behind.

Loaded for cruising, at top speed, two stroke or four, you'll be making 11-12 knots and getting somewhere around 2 mpg. 24 gallons of gas is not even enough to make Bimini, let alone one of the outer islands. It's not prudent to attempt such a trip with the idea you'll arrive with no fuel reserve.

Blasting along at top speed is one thing when you do it for a few few hours while within sight of shore. It's quite another when you're planning to do it for seven or eight hours, during some of which you'll be 30-40 miles from the nearest land. Plus, it's hard on the equipment. If your motor is going to break this is the time it's going to happen.

We did pick a calmer day for the crossing. The reason we departed when we did was because the weather was forecast to get considerably worse if we waited any longer. The day before we left, a 40 footer from our marina left on the crossing despite the prediction of bad weather. He was back at the marina shortly after noon.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

To take advantage of the high speed capability all the boats in the group have to be capable of that speed. The fact is, the past two trips the majority of the boats were not Xs and Ms with 50HP

.

I was suggesting breaking into two groups, low and high speed. If you had 20 boats in your overall group, you are still going to have all the safety benefits if you break up into two groups..as long as there are at least a few boats in each group. One group just arrives a few hours sooner than the other group. I might be worried that too big of a group makes it harder to make dynamic course changes to avoid or benefit from certain rapidly changing weather.

I believe my 4stroke will get about 4 mpg at 11 kn and a good bit better than that at slower speeds. Even wide open, it gets 3 mpg. Also, I said I would take at least 24 gals. I know all about fuel reserves, I have piloted a single engine airplane to Freeport before When you fly a single engine airplane to the Bahamas, you get up as high as possible to minimize your ditch window. In reality, I would probably bring 30 or 35 gallons on a trip like that, but it could still likely be done on 24 barring bad weather. And of course contrary to an airplane, you can always put out some sail. I expect motorsailing cuts down on fuel consumption alot.

[Chip Hindes]

If you say you're going to get 3-4 mpg at WOT, loaded for cruising (including 200-300 lbs of fuel) I can't disagree other than to say I think you better check again. I understand your four stroke will get way better mileage at lower speeds, but you're not talking of travelling at lower speeds so what's your point?

We're not morons. Twenty boats in one serial is way too many to control, especially when a good portion of the trip is in the dark. We actually had 25 boats on the trip over, and travelled in two serials of 12 and 13 separated by one half hour; one boat fewer on the return and two groups of twelve. We had breakdowns and one boat had to be towed each direction. This was accomplished at normal speed without excessively disrupting the progress and while for the most part maintaining serial integrity.

We also had special arrangements with customs in both Bimini and the US that everyone in the group would go through customs at the same time. Arriving at widely spaced times would screw this up.

As far as I'm concerned, it's simply not worth it to gain, as you yourself so aptly put it, a few hours. However, if you decide to make the trip, you're welcome to recruit anyone you wish who wants to do it your way. Perhaps it can be worked out.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I wasn't trying to imply that you were morons and I'm not trying to downplay the "safety in numbers"concept either. I think its great to have an opportunity to make the trip like that with a large group.

A lot of it probably has to do with how many powersailers are in the group. If there are just a couple, then its not likely worth trying to make a separate higher speed sub-group. But if half or more were, then it could be different. And look at it this way, the distance that the powersailer makes up when motoring will probably get taken away when the group is predominantly sailing...ie, everyone will get a chance to come in last.

[James V]

Dimitri, Is this trip still on? I was planing to leave around Mar 8-9 06.

[BK]

Jemes V, sent you a PM.

[BK]

James V, Dimitri, Roy and Tim, turns out the Counch Cruisers are going to Bimini and other islands on May 19-29, 2006. I have submitted my name to join them as they have experience going to the Bahamas and crossing the Gulf Stream.
I will be towing accross the US in April and do the Florida Keys until the Bimini trip with the CC. Hope you can make it.