A New 33' Quasi Mac?

[waternwaves]

lwl = 34
beam 9-10"
mast 48 ft.
permanent mast raising hardware
displacement 4000
fixed ballast 1000
water ballast 1200
weighted 250 lb, swing centerboard 6 ft below boat
cutter deck hardware
real salon
etec-115-150
6-4 headroom
bare interior, most of boat cost in options
tandem aluminum bunk trailer
hiking bars
rotating mast
tab bolt bace on transom
skegs reinforcement on hull
All bunks 78" long, minimum 60" wide.
16-18" draft
Tandem axle bunk trailer
Lightweight arch standard

Don't make me go design and build this myself............

[Rank Bajin]

The 33 footer sure has lots of appeal,and even if the basic boat came with that 'Clorox bottle' look, I am sure that could be dealt with with suitable interior accessories.

One important aspect (to my sailing habits) would be maintaning that shallow draft, but I fail to find any reference given in the provided commentary.

I believe both the Seaward 32 and Odin 28 to be around 22" which at a pinch would be my limit.

[AWKIII]

Ha!

No chlorox bottle look with this one.

Draft with keel down is around 5' 5". Up...around 18".

[Jeff P]

AWK111

Sounds Hobie 33ish! Couple that with the popular features and versatility of the Mac26 and I would be looking. If it was available for purchase at the same basic build-out as the Mac26 without options, with the much better build quality you mention and more sailing potential I would be very interested.

For me personally, some things I would be hoping to see on this boat in its basic format might not be practical or possible..? But, to be more specific, unrealistic or not, here are a few;

Rigging that would broaden the boat's coastal and ocean cruising reach.

A complete rigging design foundation built into the boat and a rigging plan for an owner to follow as a guideline, in the future, to their level of need and interest. Example- Glassed-in pads for deck organizers on both sides so owner can finish lines back. I would like rigging to singlehand and would want the foundation in place so this and other typical rigging options could be done in a traditionally founded and sound manner.

Trailer capacity that considers a growing boat.

Daggerboard, steering and rudder system to match, just for few.

With my wish list above and quality anywhere near your Freedom Line you would have a sale.

Jeff

[delevi]

Jeff,
Virtually all new boats sold today are set up with all control lines running to the cockpit. The Mac is an exception so that owners have to rig this setup on their own.

[delevi]

Sounds like many here want a larger, better built Mac with better sailing characteristics. So why not stay with the power-sailor concept i.e. large OB, make the boat 30-33' and beef up the quality. A bulb keel for ballast should improve sailing characteristics considerbly over water ballast. What you think Art?

[AWKIII]

Hi Leon.

Actually, there are a couple reasons....

Time and money are the big ones. The process of designing and building a boat is a long one. You first start off with the design. This can take anywhere from six months to a year depending on how well you work with the designer. From there, you have to build plugs for each of the components....hull, deck, liners, etc.. This really eats up the calendar. After the plugs are completed, you build the molds. Once completed, you build your prototype. There are always problems with the first boat...some big and some small. It isn't unusual to scrap the prototype completely and build another. It is virtually impossibly to go through this process in the U.S. anymore. Although material costs are the same anywhere in the world, it all boils down to labor. A boat's cost is roughly 70% labor and 30% material. Hunter, Catalina and Beneteau can do it since they primarily build larger boats. The bigger they are, the more margin. Small boats are like small cars, margins are less plus you have to feed the dealer. The bottom line is you are forced to move this process overseas or to Mexico. I have done it in Europe and China. China is a nightmare and would never go that route again. Europe is fine except the Euro has been all over the place in the past year. It makes costing and pricing real difficult. Plus you have the added expense of shipping the boats to the U.S.. I guess I am simply burned out on building new boats from scratch. It is so much easier to find an existing boat and retrofit it. However, there aren't many out there that fit the bill. If you are real lucky, the molds are still around. If not, it is simple to build new ones from an exisiting boat. It's called splashing. You take apart the existing boat and the individual parts then become your plugs. You make new molds from them.

The other reason I don't go the bigger Mac route is based on viability. I am a firm believer the majority of Mac buyers purchase the boat because of it's affordability. There is nothing on the market that even comes close. There are obviously some who want the large engine and power sailing ability. However, there are many who are purchasing the boat primarily to sail or learn to sail and have no desire for the large engine. As a dealer, we see a good portion of our boats leave with engines under 15 hp.

The concept of the 33 is to offer an affordable boat with exceptional sailing performance but still allow the owner to pack a little power on the back. The boat has a very sweet hull shape and a 25 will move her around nicely. Plus there is no rudder up, rudder down, water in, water out, board up and board down nonsense to deal with. The only time you need to adjust the rudder and board is if you want to do some gunkholing.

I could be all wet on this one and have not made a decision one way or the other. One of the things that concerns me is the poll results. Most reasonably equipped Macs today run about $30 to $35K. Look at the number of respondents that want a 33' for the same price. It simply can't be done. Not even by MacGregor.

[ROAD Soldier]

That sounds like a 33 version of Tide28. The British made boat that crossed the Atlantic Dev.

[Boblee]

Art
I ticked the lower price based on it being $15000 or one third higher than the Mac as a standard.
The Mac sales in the US may be based on price and they should be as they are cheap but here people who buy a Mac especially a second hand one are definitely not basing it on price, there are any number of S/H trailer sailers and for that matter real sailboats far cheaper.
The 28' Mack is in real terms only 20% max dearer than the Mac for a whole lot more boat but I believe it was overpriced at that, considering it was still a very basic boat, I believe a different builder could have made a huge difference.
There seems to be a rule of thumb that it will cost at least 33% to bing a boat to Aust and thats where the costs are for our Macs although with Macs it appears to be more like 100%.
Even those bringing in S/H Macs when we had parity were doubling the price of the US boat.
You say you don't have to have water in/out, if you don't use water ballast you are carrying all your ballast on the trailer?

[Richard O'Brien]

Art

I think that you ought to throw this out on Sailnet in the boat design forum? I suspect there are many more sailors out there who would like a boat they can haul out easily, that's large enough for a comfortable week or more, and doesn't cost them the year round slip. If it can be hauled to the Great lakes or Lake Powell, so much the better. I'm still interested in the Keel configuration, and overall stiffness. How many bulkheads?

Richard O'B

[Boblee]

I agree with Richard I think you should expand your audience and you may get a different response.

[Robin_good]

Hello,
I think 33 is overkill. If will not fit on a dray storage for example.
I sailed on Hunter 29 and 30. I am not sure about it exact dimensions but if you can make the interior the same this is all many people need in my opinion. It has separate forward cabin, good head, you can actually stand almost everywhere. Kitchen is nice too. Make water ballast, centerboard and trailable and I'll by one . Benetau 311 had an option with lift keel, but it is very expensive and rare. Inboard diesel with a max speed of 10Knots would be nice, but outboard will do as well.
If Hunter and Benetau could do it in 29/30/31, it probably can be done, right? About beam: There are a lot of big fishing boats (Osprey?) out there and they are quite wide. People tow them all the time, so that mustn't be that hard.
Just thought I share my opinion.
Owner of '00 Mac 26X who would like to have a bigger boat but still keep the trailer option.
Thanks,
Alex.

[Richard O'Brien]

I kind of see what Alex is saying, but I think The 33' was based on an available Racing hull. Right? That's a lot of waterline, and if it's only 8' wide you could do some seriously fast sailing. I suspect 8'-6" is ok too, but again the 8' makes it easy to ship. I remember Robert Perry designed a "container" yacht a couple of years ago. I never read any reviews on it. It looked a little slab-sided to me to, but I think it was about 45' long? I didn't realize dry storage is limited to 29-30'. That could be a difficulty unless you could get it in corner or something.

[AWKIII]

Hi Richard.

The Perry design is 40' and was specifically designed for container shipping. The first boat off the line was called "In-Box". The reviews of the boat were actually pretty good. She has a nice hull but the topsides leave alot to be desired.

The company is based out of Rhode Island and I would bet they haven't sold more than a couple if that. The thing retails for well over $200,000.00.

She is not trailerable. Just transportable via the shipping container.

This would be an interesting boat to play around with from a re-design perspective. Keep the hull and toss everything else.

I am not too worried about 33' being too long. I was more concerned about it being too short. A lot of folks have mentioned they wouldn't be interested in moving up if it only meant a few feet. I wish the beam could be widened to 8.6 but that will require re-creating the wheel. A good interior design should negate some of the downside. The Mac is only seven and change by 25 and change. There is a lot of space down below. The extra 5' in length should do wonders although some of it will be donated to a larger cockpit.

You been by Calibre yet to drill that hole?

Regards,

Art

[Uncle Jim]

...I am not too worried about 33' being too long. I was more concerned about it being too short. A lot of folks have mentioned they wouldn't be interested in moving up if it only meant a few feet. ...

Hi Art,

I'd have to agree. At the moment we've been thinking that 33' is our next step. Big enough to keep the Admrial comfortable and to give my backside room enough to move around, yet small enough that you do don't have far to fall over in a sudden gust .

As for the price tag... I was looking towards the median 35-39K as a base price. Then like most builders you start adding the extras, sails, rigging, etc. The '09 hunter 33 at Annapolis started at 118K ending up at over 150K delivered. Given the choice I'd look twice at your set up at what ever price range it ends up in.

Jim