Chutescoop and A-Sym Spin

[atzserv]

2006 26M

I need to ask those of you that have the chutescoop a question.

I just ordered an asym from KellyHanson. Art mentioned that the chutescoop is a real help with this sail.

I am going to start with the genoa halyard and put a block on the anchor roller that has a hole next to where the furler is connected. I will run the pendant aft. On the kellyHanson site it mentions the chutescoop is sized for these sails. One of my questions is this. Does the chutescoop run from the top of the genoa halyard to the anchor roller when it is covering the Asym or does it stop short above somewhere? Looking at all the pics and demos they show the chutescoop being operated already in motion. I guess what I am trying to figure out is can I hoist the chutescoop and sail around and when ready to deploy the asym it is ready or will there be a large amount of sail sticking out even if the chutescoop is covering the hoisted sail causing this part to be blown around?

Scenario: I launch the boat at the dock. At the dock I hoist the asym with the chutescoop. Motor out for a distance. Raise the main. Sail for a while, when ready raise the chutescoop to deploy the Asym.

I know I am going to have to see it all in action to decide whether or not to add a higher hound for flying the asym and getting a tighter luff on the sail ect, but i am hoping to understand better about how much extra length in the chutescoop might be needed if any. As I have said. some thought their chutescoop was too short originally and some have ordered longer lengths to give them what they were looking for.

Gary

[Clemo]

Hi, I'm a few steps ahead of you, but I still havn't actually flown my asymmetric kite yet either.

My reading of this site and others has me gearing up to fly the kite from the pullpit. From the bolt that holds the mast while she is on the trailer.

The kite needs its own hallyard, about a foot above the forestay.

To gybe the kite the whole sail passes ahead of the forestay. So it needs to be either above and/or ahead of all your foredeck stuff. (Froestay, pullpit, etc.) the sail is sort of outside the boat, if you know what I mean.

When searching web sites for "asymmetric spinnaker" its necessary to search for "assymetric" and also "spinaker".

I had my kite made here in Australia, so I can't comment on your US supplier.

I'll be using a "turtle bag", not a schute scoop or dowser sock, so I can't help you there either.

I also plan on trying a temporary spinnaker hallyard, with a zip-tie to the mast, for a trial sail before I drill any holes. Won't be ably to hoist the main with the zip-tie but at least I'll see the geometry of the spinnaker in the air. If it is too baggy from the pullpit I'll be looking for a bowsprit.

But I do know how excited you are. I surely cant wait to hiost mine.

If you go to "New to riggingthe 26M" in the "Performance and tuning" forum you will find a discussion on asymmetrics. The guy with heaps of info is "Parrothead". He also posted his mods for the same.

Clear skys, & (especially) light following breezes, Tks,
C ya,
Clemo.

[BigNige]

Hi Gary,

I've recently fitted the chutescoop from KH. I have the std Asym spinnaker but can tell you that the chutescoop is about 18 in shorter than the tack length leaving some sail to flap about when the sail is doused.If you are going to fly the sail as Roger intended you are going to have some sail (and chutescoop) laying on the foredeck and of course you won't be able to use your jib/genoa. I don't think the chutescoop was intended to be used in this way (have a look at http://www.chutescoop.com/TipsPage.htm). IMHO you would be better off without it and launch from the sail bag.

I single hand and wanted to use my A Sym from the cockpit. I had a bowsprit made up at the local boatyard which puts the location point for the tack pennant about 2 ft ahead of the jib furler. I also fitted a new masthound about 1 ft above the existing one. Putting the sail in the chutescoop lowers the head by about 4 inches so that even with the above arrangement I cannot put any tension into the tack its just about taught so you certainly won't achieve anything much by putting a block on the bow roller and running the tack pennant back to the cockpit better to get KH's Cruising Spinnaker Hardware Package. This is a nice bit of kit with a tack pennant that allows the sail to fly above the pulpit and 2 Garhauer blocks so that you can run the sheet(s) to the stern (these attach to the cleats) and turn the sheet towards the cockpit winches.

I have also lengthened the chutescoop control line and run it back to the cockpit and I have found that to control it from there I have to raise the chutescoop enough (only about another foot) before I set out to release the clew of the sail otherwise it snares in the chutescoop and I have to go forward anyway and release it.

I will try and post some pics of this mod soon. Hope this helps.

PS -The boat really looks great when the spinnakerl is up.

[Boblee]

I mounted another hound 18" above the headsail hound but it will be raised another 8' as I am installing another headsail hound 8" higher, the modified anchor roller I have works like a mini bowsprit and between the higher hound and this it keeps the chutescoop out of the way of the jib furler.
The chutescoop being very loose flaps about a fair bit in the wind so it is a bit annoying if the wind comes up and you are heading upwind.
We have a factory spinaker and it is a bit longer than the chutescoop but don't consider it a problem, I operate the chutescoop from the bow because I just don't want any more lines aft and really think it would probably foul in many conditions just when you would want to douse quickly but I could be wrong.
Our sheets run to blocks on the stern rails and then forward to the winches and the jib sheets are moved to a separate set of cleats when not in use but reversed back when the spinaker is doused.

[ralphk]

I have similar rig.
KH Chutescoop, Doyle factory Assymetrical
I added a tang, block and assymetrical spin halyard, 20 inches above the jib tang.

On a calm day, in the slip (or on the trailer), hoist the Chutescoop and the spin with the halyard.
Then using Chutescoop's continuous looped line, pull the Chutescoop down over the limp sail.
It's like stuffing a sausage.
When the scoop is fully extended, there is about 18-24" of sail exposed at the foot.

At this point, lower the Scoop (complete with assym) down through the hatch and fix the halyard to the mast.

The stuffed chutescoop fits perfectly in the spinnaker bag and is permanently stored in this fashion.

When you want to deploy, hoist the still stuffed scoop in one shot. Now the tack and clew are perfectly located - no hunting, no guessing.
You can take your time rigging the sheets, perfecting the point of sail and leisurely raise the scoop completely stress free.

Ralph k

PS
I fly the assym outside of the forestay and find we are all much happier dousing the spin with scoop prior to gybing.
Redeploy on the new point of sail - The whole operation take 2-3 minutes.

[parrothead]

Scenario: I launch the boat at the dock. At the dock I hoist the asym with the chutescoop. Motor out for a distance. Raise the main. Sail for a while, when ready raise the chutescoop to deploy the Asym.

Gary,

I don't think this will work, especially not with the KH version of the Chutescoop spinnaker sock which, as RalphK has inidcated, leaves the bottom 2' of spinnaker uncovered. It is cut at this length so that the clew & tack can be secured to their control lines without having to lift the sock. The spinnaker in its sock is relatively compact, but I can't imagine sailing to windward for any amount of time with it hoisted -- too much windage.

If you do decide to go with a dedicated halyard on a higher mast hound, and don't need to single-hand from the cockpit, you might consider my "spinnaker halyard led forward" mod, with which it is easy to make all the necessary attachments and then hoist the spinnaker, in its sock, while standing in the front hatch. The spinnaker halyard is secured with a Harken swivel cleat and terminates in a green plastic ball for easy grasping.

Doug

[atzserv]

OK, This is starting to come together for me !! Thanks to all that have given what they have experienced with this Asym sail.

The 18-24 inches of sail left after the chutescoop is doused has an advantage as I can now see. Setting the clew lines and tack.

Parrothead, you worked with me on this site and I used the Harken 140 block for the halyard aft and I think it is fantastic. I am not sure yet about the block for raising forward yet although I will need to be forward to set the clew and tack. One question: is the picture of the spin flying before or after you added the higher hound? It looks like it tightens the luff pretty well in the pic and I wondered because if i use the genoa halyard there would be 20 inches plus the 4 inches the chutescoop block needs for a total of 24 inches. That would seem to make the luff pretty baggy.

Ralphk, I am also asking you basically the same question about the higher hound at 20 inches? Do you have the tack at the anchor roller or on a bowsprit? Also is the luff fairly taunt for pointing a little higher?

Dousing and redeploying for a gybe sounds like a popular method.

Gary

[parrothead]

One question: is the picture of the spin flying before or after you added the higher hound?

Gary,

If you are referring to the photos included with my post at http://macgregorsailors.com/forum/viewt ... =9&t=10945 --- in the top photo the spinnaker is flying from the stock jib hayard, in photos 3 & 4 it is flying from a dedicated halyard secured at the added, higher mast hound. Here is a more recent shot of us sailing under spinnnaker alone which shows pretty well the arc of the luff. In this photo, we're on a broad reach so the spinnaker tack is set at the height of the bow pulpit. On a close reach the tack would be pulled down to the top of the furler drum, straightening the luff a bit more.

Doug

[bubba]

Here is my Tack line pulley for adjustable tack http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42 ... nakert.jpg
It is adjustable from the cockpit and a person does not have to get out of the forward hatch to set up the spinnaker or take it down. iI's very secure for my wife who usually deploys it and brings the Chute Scoop closed to tack and open the spinnaker after tacking. I haven't gone higher on the mast because the stress with no back stay may be too much for the M . If I get Running Back Stays I may try setting the top of the A-spinnaker higher. http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42 ... nakert.jpg

[ralphk]

Gary:

I fly it from a fixed length pennant, shackled to the towing ring, same as a painter.


There's mod planned for this summer, to add an anchor roller and removable bowsprit to Hakuna Matata.
If I spend this much effort modifying my 26X, then I'd also want to be able to adjust the length of the pennant from the
forward hatch.
Baggier when broad and a little tighter when reaching.

Incidently, I don't fuss about a little bit of kite exposed when sailing to windward. I keep a couple of bungees at the bow to
wrap up the flapping nylon.

By the way, performance when running is abysmal.
Has anyone had success with a whisker pole to force some decent sail shape with the assymetrical?
If so, how long does it need to be? Where do you attach?

Best

Ralph k.

[bubba]

Quote: By the way, performance when running is abysmal. Yes running is best done by a std spinnaker and we installed a 175 sq ft rainbow color with std spinnaker pole from my wifes old 20 ft daysailor, the bow lift is nice when running across 2-3 ft wind swells and adds mph too.

[atzserv]

I have another question after reading again some of the posts about the Asym.

One member mentioned he needs about 90 ft of sheet to fly the Asym.

When I spoke to Art I thought he said the Asym sheet they sell was 70 ft and as a trivia question it is the longest line on the mac.

I can also see how adding a masthound and adding a bowsprit might make for needing a longer sheet. Surely this is the length so you can have a windward and leeward sheet like on the Genoa isn't it?

What lenght are you guys using?

Man I wish it was spring!

Gary

[delevi]

I use the stock sheets that came with the Doyle Mac-spinnkaer. You do get a working and lazy sheet,though the lazy sheet needs to be off the winch, otherwise you run out of line on certain sheeting angles i.e. the lazy sheet starts to take up load if not freed up. A slightly longer line would be better. I run the spinn outside the forestay. Those who run inside the forestay may not encouter the sheets being a bit too short....though running inside the forestay can be problematic.

I also use a chute scoop. Although it doesn't cover the bottom portion of the sail, the sail can be stuffed into the bottom part of the sock, as long as there is no tension on the tack line or the clew. I currently fly off the jib halyard, though planning to install a hound about a foot above that. The tack line would simply need to be longer. I attach the tack line, approximately 12 inches long to the anchor roller. There are two small holes on the steel fitting just above the roller through whcih I put a bolt and nut. The tack line shackles to that bolt.

Leaving the spinnaker hoisted in the chutescoop for a long period of time is probably not a good idea. It would dangle around quite a bit, and the windage will probably beat up the spinnaker and scoop, not to mention that it will be quite annoying. One option would be to rig everyhting up and then bungee the spinnkaer inside the scoop somehwere on deck, ready to deploy.

Cheers,
L.

[atzserv]

Leon,

Thanks for the clear situation you use for flying your Asym.

It had been my assumtion that the higher hound along with a bowsprit was needed to use the Asym sheets outside the forstay. keeping the sheets attached for the genoa is favorable in my case.

Since your using the sheets in this way I can look forward to learning how to do this before making final decisions for height of masthound and finding tubing for a removable bowsprit.

I also want to thank you for helping me with the length of the sheets. I will go 90 ft to be safe. I can always cut if needed after the final decisions about all the right locations.

Stuffing the extra sail and a bungee setup for securing the sail once on a setting that would make flying the Asym undesirable for a short time is another good idea. Anything longer would be to just use the sailbag and put away or drop down the hatch as others have mentioned.

All you fellow Mac guys are great. Keep the thoughts and personel experiences coming.

Gary