DFW sailors

[Sailing Hamlet]

Hey all-
As I've found noted in at least another post, there used to be a Mac/Venture club in Dallas, but the website's last posting is in 2001. Was anybody a member/still a member?
Tristan

[sailormark]

I'm in North Dallas and I have not seen anything about a club.
Do we need to start one? There used to be a dealer here too but thats gone now.

[skeedaddy]

I live in Denton and have been part of the Dallas Hobie Fleet for a few years.

I am now selling my H16 and sailing my Mac 26 as often as possible on Lake Lewisville and Ray Roberts. The wife, kiddos and I went out last Friday.

Maybe a fleet is in order.

Heck, with three local boats that we know of, maybe we should just go for a sail sometime soon.

[skeedaddy]

Quick Aside: Even without a local Mac dealer, we still have a great supplier here in the metroplex. I still get most of my gear from Aris down at Mariner Sails. The customer service and sailing knowledge are amazing there!

[dvideohd]

We sail our 26D locally and (soon) on the Gulf. Lake Ray Hubbard.....

We doing a bottom job and refit right now... adding AC power, more cleats, and a variety of other mods...

--jerry

[Hamin' X]

!	Moderator Note:
	Moved from "MacGregor/Venture Discussion" to this forum for more exposure. Powersailor owners may not read the other forum. ~Rich---Hamin' X~

[skeedaddy]

Are you doing the bottom job yourself or having it done? If so, where?

I won't be doing one this year, but will likely have to next year. I already have those little bubbles forming.

[dvideohd]

I am doing the bottom job myself. I am having to feel my way into a lot of this - as I have not done it before.. It takes a LOT longer when you (a) are doing it yourself, (b) are having to figure out some of this yourself -and then do it as a "one man" job, (c) finding distractions along the way.

If you can afford to have this done by "hiring out" - it can be darn well worth it... Our time spent is valuable, after all. But I wanted to learn about this stuff.... and there are things I am learning that I did not anticipate learning.. ie, more time....

I had planned to having the Mac26D in the ocean fora number of months. That is likely not going to happen - so I am definitely doing an "overkill" job for weekend lake and some ocean time.

I can detail how and what I did - if there is interest...

--jerry

[npatterson]

Oh yeah, I would like to know all the details of what you did. I'm thinking of doing ours myself to save money. The local guy is quoting me 1800$ to paint the bottom. I just thought that was abit high.

[Night Sailor]

I'm located in Flower Mound, and have usually sailed Lewisville Lake for the last 11 years in the X, and for 11 years before that in various larger and smaller boats.
I had a local shop do my hull for the first time two years ago for $1800, and after being in the lake for three months, and then pulled out, the $250 a gallon paint peelied off down to the gelcoat the first time I washed the hull down with a garden hose. You don't always get what you pay for. I'm sorry I ever went to paint. However, the boat had been the water continuously for two years on Lewisvill Lake and had developed pinhead size blisters in the gelcoat, so I thought it best.
Now, finances do not permit me to keep it in the water full time. I will clean off the old paint, and seal it properly myself, figureing that in the long run, I will do the job as it should have been done in the first place, using the manufacturere's recommended paint for a trailerable boat, and despite the hard labor, be ahead of the game. Hull paint doesn't have to be applied all at once, it can be done one manageable section at a time.

[dvideohd]

Bottom Painting my Mac26D.

This is a long reply.. . but I always wanted "more" rather than "less" detail when I was doing research. This is just my own experience - YMMV.

A number of folks have very creative and effective solutions for bottom painting the boat by themselves. I have seen better solutions than what I am doing - quicker and more direct - but this just works for me. Your mileage may vary - and your circumstances may as well.

I have a Mac26D. I had planned to be in a marina - on the ocean - for 3+ months. So I looked at the bottom and it was OK for occasional Texas Lake use. The bottom paint was not sufficient for extended saltwater time - so I knew I had to do something. Might as well do it right..... or at least "right enough". I have a 20 year old boat - great shape - and it will outlast me by a long time... With care - this will be a good boat 20, 30, 40, or even more years from now. 26Ds are basic and easy to maintain: a good "learning boat". Therefore a good bottom job and some good anti fouling paint should last quite a while. At least that is where I started.

First - the bottom paint...
I selected Westmarine CPP Plus (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... artial/0/0). It was a balance of cost and use. PCA is also a good choice... more expensive - but I don't think I need it for what I will be doing. $119 - and you can get it for less - as some have noted. There are also restrictions on what the bottom paint/condition currently is that you will be painting over.

Second... Getting the boat off the trailer.. (more later)

Third - after it was off the trailer - I inspected the bottom closely.

I found that there were several areas where the PO had taken some hull damage... the PO may have hit something and knocked the Gelcoat off. There are 5+ areas that needed some significant work. This might be the first place where paying someone to do just a bottom job is a problem. Those spots needed to be fixed if this boat was to be in the water for any length of time. Upon inspecting the 20+ year old paint there... it was apparent that I also needed to do a barrier coat. That was a LOT MORE WORK than just a bottom coat. A WHOLE LOT.

I was aware that a 1988 vintage boat could probably expect to see blister problems - as people have noted here.

At this point in time... I knew that I needed to do some gelcoat-hull repair, strip all the previous blue "bottom paint" off, and put on a barrier coat first. Only THEN could I put on the CPP Plus bottom paint. This is where the cost started going up. But I have to admit - I was learning a lot, too.

So the process plan became/is:
a - boat off trailer - on blocks off the ground high enough to work on.
b - Strip the current bottom paint off - with Interlux stripper. (1 gallon needed - or a bit less)
(a quart will do about 1 and 1/4 bottom coats. You will need - really a gallon )
It has - so far - taken multiple passes of stripper - then sanding with 80 grit sandpaper. That could be
somewhat temperature related - I am not sure.)
(There are cheaper, more aggressive strippers - but none that I want on my hands or face... don't cut
corners here)
c - repair the 5+ damaged sections of hull with G/Flex Epoxy.
The cold weather works to my advantage there. It is not major repair - and I followed Don Casey's recommendations.
(some faring needed)
d -Dewax using West Marine DeWaxer. - a 1 quart wipe down.
e - rebed all the holes near the water line - for depth /fish finder with G/Flex.
f - careful application of Epoxy resistant material where I am putting the masking tape.
g - Masking tape (2") - around where the new boot stripe will be. Use roller and rubbing cloth to get the tape down right.
h - last dewax near the masking tape -
i - 4 coats of Barrier Coat Epoxy - InterProtect 2000E/2001E (White & Gray) - 2 Gallons
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... assNum=770#
Interprotect 200E is pretty much a consensus pick. The recomendation is 4-5 layers under the bottom paint.
(I will plan on 4 coats - and will add local coverage to 8 layers on problem spots - like the keel and on the leading edge of the bow/daggerboard and central bottom region of the boat.).
(I alternate with white/gray layers)
j - when the barrier coat is dry, then put down the CPP Plus - two layers.
k - peel the masking tape, put down the "tape" bootstripe. I might wimp out and paint it on - not sure yet.

At this time, I am at the stripping and sanding stage. I think it has to be 60 degrees or above for the stripper to be effective - doesn't seem to work as well when colder... but I could be very wrong here. I get slower when it is colder, too.

Note: I am raising the boat stripe - by about 2". This decision was based on observation of where the waterline is when we are sailing.
Note: I am not planning on racing .... I just plan on about 3-4 months of "in water" time this year -and don't mind putting on a new bottom coat - next year or the year after. It will be a lot simpler then.

About the sander: I tried several sanders.
- Variable speed sander (7") from Harbor Freight. with 80 grit- works well. but is too hard to control - and removes paint too fast in just "one spot". Throws dust everywhere.
To use this - I think you need a "deft touch" - which I don't have yet. Then to, the material removed just comes off on a stream at the edge of the
sanding pad. Stuff goes everywhere. I did not like that...
- 5" Random, round, orbital sander from Harbor Freight. $19, has dust bag and uses hook and loop 80 grit paper with holes - for the dust pickup.
- 5" Random, round, orbital sander made by DeWalt. $79 -- and my preferred choice. works like the HF sander, but easier to control - and feels better.
I much prefer the round, orbital sanders in place of the "square paper" sanders. Carbide paper is better, too.
Keeping the dust from spilling everywhere is a very good idea. That dust will go straight up your nose and down to your lungs if you are not protected. BE SAFE!!
Use breathing filters/eye protection!!!! think SAFE!!!!

I have other fiberglass/gelcoat work to do - so did not mind trying out several different sanders.

****************

Lifting the boat and getting it off the trailer... there are lots of ways to do it.. I was alone to lift - so safety was the number one goal. I followed the old "rigger's mantra" - and lifted a MINIMUM amount on each of three lift points - without lifting too much at any one point: "Lift as little as possible."

Here are some photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/dvideohd

The Mac26D trailer has "goal posts" welded on. So you cannot Just Lift - and then silde the trailer out. It must be "worked out" - ergo the 3 lifting postions on the front.

On the all lift points (one front and two rear), I always used a backup - in case my lift device failed. Since I used a car jack to lift, this is a very good idea. If the trailer slid off the car jack, it would fall no more than an inch before the jack stand caught it (one notch). That was why I used a 6000# rated stand instead of some thing much less hefty. Backing up the Jack Stand, I had the the concrete blocks and a pair of 4x4s (with additonal 2x4s) as a support.

So the process was - on the rear two points:

a - set the two concrete blocks in place - (to stack cross pattern going up)
b - postion the car lift and jack stand - on the metal trailer rail.
c - pump the handle on the car jack - lifting the trailer.
d - every time the trailer went up 1 notch of jack stand space - then move the jack stand "fork" up a notch.
(if it fell - then the trailer would only fall one notch.

I repeated this process - and used the 4x4 (wth 2x4s) - going across between block stacks to serve as the "second backup".

Each time one side was lifted 4" or so, I would go to the other side and lift. I was able to continue lifting each side safely Each side could move up relatively evenly. Every 8" of lift - I added another cross course of concrete blocks.

Why a 2x2 cross pattern going up? I read of someone's experience where they almost "lost the boat" going up... When the trailer is lifted on one side - there is some angular force. So I used a 2 wide x 3 high stack instead of a 1 wide by 3 high stack. Be cautions.

After the rear two points are up on blocks, then I let the trailer down to the ground.

*****************************

After the rear two points were up on 3 rows of blocks and a 4x4, I then switched to the front lift point. The front point is more complicated.

I lifted a single point in the front with the car jack - (backing up with the jack stand and concrete block/4x4.

I followed a similiar process to what was outlined above - with an added part. Once the boat clears the trailer in front, then the trailer is brought forward until the trailer crossbar stops the progress. The car-jack was then let down - leaving the jack stand holding the weight. The car-jack was then brought behind the crossbar - to lift the boat - thus allowing the jack stand to be moved - and the trailer to be brought forward. 4x4s we stacked and used as a backup here - again.

Once the trailer was out from under the boat - then I repeated the process outlined for the rear of the boat - and lifted the front to be 3 rows of blocks high - with a 4x4 used to rest the boat on.

***************

this may sound complicated.. but it is not.. It took me a while to do this myself, and the need for safety was the number one goal. Lift process worked. I have only taken so long - due to the low temperatures for most of January.

Just refer to the pictures to see the idea behind this whole process.

******************
****************

Cost - for my bottom painting adventure....

$120 - Bottom Paint - 1 gal - Westmarine CPP Plus
$200 - Barrier Coat - 2 gal - Interlux Interprotect 2000
$135 - Stripper - 1..25 gal - Interlux 299E
$ 19 - Thinner/Dewaxer - 1 quart - Westmarine
$ 50 - Brushes/rags/ etc
$ 40 - Boot Stripe Tape
$ 6 - Masking Tape
$ 20 - West Systems G/Flex (and a bit of filler )

Misc Supplies:
$20 - Sanding discs - #80 / hook and loop/carbide/holed for dust removal
- Sander (5" - random orbit)
30 - concrete blocks - 8x8x16 (20 to 22 needed)
- 4x4 - length 8' (2 needed)
- misc pieces of 2x4 and 4x4
50 - Jack Stand - 6000# (pair)
- car jack
- misc wood and screws

****************************
so from the standpoint of the above... $1800 is not too bad...

if you just need to Bottom Paint and you HAVE some basic materials... it need not cost you much...

You DON"T need to get the boat completely off the trailer - if it is JUST a bottom paint job... so a lot of work can be saved...

I just found myself working on fixing some problems a 20 year of boat has - and I wanted to do this right....

BTW - don't forget the daggerboard, daggerboard well, and rudder.

[dvideohd]

BTW...

I bought supplies at the local Westmarine on Central...

Good advice and good guys - it will save you money both in the short and long run to support our local store if possible.

--jerry

[PollyAnna]

Hey all-
As I've found noted in at least another post, there used to be a Mac/Venture club in Dallas, but the website's last posting is in 2001. Was anybody a member/still a member?
Tristan

Here is an up-to-date link to their website:

http://venturesailingclubofdallas.com/index.html

Gregg

[dvideohd]

missed the current meeting...

Club Meeting:
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
6:45pm
El Fenix Mexican Restaurant
5280 Belt Line Road
Dallas, Tx 75240

--jerry

***********
2009 events listed on site...



February 17
Club Meeting at Spring Creek BarBeQue
6:45pm.

March 28-29
Bachelor Cruise – Cabin #210

May 23-25
Memorial Day Cruise on Lake Texoma

July 3-5
4th of July Cruise at Lake Texoma

--jr

[Sailing Hamlet]

Thanks for the link! I'd been looking for a while...don't know how you found it.