First Winter with my new Mac.

[EasyLuckyFree]

Hey,
This will be my first winter with my 09' Mac26. I am in Washington DC and had 2 concerns about the winter here.
Most boats stay in the water throughout the winter here. Mine will as well. Most boats are barely winterized, if winterized at all. It does get cold though. The river does not ice over entirely but today for instance there was definately ice around the boats in the marina. That I am not too concerned about. What I am concerned about is my ballast tank. Although there is ice in the river, my ballast tank is still in a liquid state which I was happy to see. A- Will it freeze, or is in insulated enough by the boat. and B- If it freezes will it cause damage to the tank/hull? I may try to find a way to pump it out before it freezes, althought the dealership I baught it from said that is would be fine. Anyone have any knowledge on this?
Thanks,
Tom

[NiceAft]

Tom,

What if the dealer is wrong I realize it's too late to start second guessing, but you are limited at this time. My guess is that you can power syphon the ballast.

I would not chance the ballast freezing. If the water around it is icing, I would be concerned. If the ballast is partially full, maybe there won't be damage if the contents freeze. There will be room for the water to expand.

Can you secure dock lines on both port and starboard? If yes, and the mast is down, then emptying the ballast might be a good idea. I realize that it really does not matter now, but is the reason that you left the ballast full was to gain stability at the dock?

I wish I had a better response for you.


Ray

[Captain Jim]

If you were to put rock salt in the ballast tank, wouldn,t that give you a high concentration of salt water to provide the added insurance you are looking for?

Jim

[Bill Earnhardt]

I have an 06 M26, and I take it out of the water (Lake Tahoe ) in the winter anyway.
but If it's getting cpld enough to freeze around the boat, empty it. Pump it, or open drain
and run it over 5mph till it's empty. IMHO

[NiceAft]

Tom,

I should have mentioned this before. Always do a search on a topic. This one, like many others, has been discussed.
click here to see a past discussion on this topic

Ray

[atzserv]

I have temps here that are close to 0 F. Unusually cold for around here but where I keep my boat they use a bubble system for keeing the water from freezing.

I am in New Jersey. I would like to keep my Mac in a slip over the winter like some others do.

Has anyone tried to use a pump from the vent location to see if the ballast will empty? I looked at the drawing on the Macgregor site and it looks like an upsidedown U configuration.

My thinking is if I can get at least half and then add salt for added safety (however much that might be). Even half would leave 75 gal of seawater. I only mention this method of using a pump for that situation when Forgetting to empty the ballast while out on the water. As for those that say the water in the ballast is protected and won't freeze if the water around the boat doesnt I am not so sure. When I was looking for a marina last winter it was a cold day but nothing like this week the sea was splashing nicely but docks had ice formations. Salt water was freezing is my point. Just to risky for the amount of damage possible in my opinion without some better understanding.

Hearing from those of you from north of here and that keep your boat in a slip over the winter would be of great help.

Gary

[bubba]

Get an small animial electric water heater for the outside water bole, stick it in the vent hole, it will do the trick. A farm and home store will have the water heaters if they sell horse feed.
Turn your electric heater in the boat up and keep the boat warm and it should not freeze.

Good Luck

[NiceAft]

Gary,

Here is something I found that seems to relate to your thoughts on the ballast:

Re: Getting the ballast out faster?
by Retcoastie on Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:36 am

Your solution requires forward speed. I went a different way.

We have an inflatable air mattress that came with a battery operated air pump that puts out a lot of volume but not too much pressure. Attach said pump to the vent hole and it will blow the water out. Start with the drain valve open but slowly close it when you start getting bubbles.

This can be done sitting still, which is very helpful if you have run aground or are at the dock/ramp.Retcoastie

If you want to see the total discussion, do a search for Getting the ballast out faster? I found it by doing a search for ballast pump.

Tom,

Are you still reading all of this

Guys, if you post a question, and then realize that "Maybe I should have used the search function", do it after. This way you can inform the rest of us with what you found.


Ray

[Uncle Jim]

Hi Tom and welcome to the board, this is a great place for Mac'ers to hang out.
Where about in DC are you located and where are you keeping the slipped? We have been out in Annapolis area for the last year and are thinking of moving down to Cobb Island.

Jim

[puggsy]

Where I am, we do not have your problem...never much colder than 5 degrees celsius, midwinter... anyhow, to prevent your ballast water freezing and therefore expanding and cracking your ballast tank...
Add some methylated spirits to your water through the forrard air vent.
Reason...in the 70's I was running a small beach kiosk and ferry service on an island only 1 km off the coast...PENGUIN ISLAND, SAFETY BAY....OSKAR KNOWS IT] In the kiosk was an old fashioned icecream storage bench. It looked a bit like the top of an I.C.B.M nuclear submarine... 6 or so circular holes into which went the large icecream cylindrical containers. And in a 'water jacket' surrounding the tubes/ holes was a water/ methylated spirit mixture kept colder than ice by a refrigerator compressor. The mixture froze the icecream rock hard but remained liquid. It could not be allowed to freeze solid otherwise it would crack the waterjacket...just like the ballast tank.
What I am not sure about it the ratio of water to methylated.
Methylated is of course what we use in our stoves....cheap at any supermarket...\
Puggsy

[EasyLuckyFree]

Hey,
Thanks for all of the comments.
Should be very helpful. It still has not frozen, but I will try something this weekend. I can't empty it while running because the motor is winterized, and there is ice on the river. My plan was to find a way to pump it but have not been successful finding a pump that would work with the front berth vent. I wil either try adding lots of salt, or the methylated spirits... which do you think is a better idea?
Thanks again for all your input!
-Tom

[Hamin' X]

You can buy an oil change pump that works through the dip stick tube at Auto Zone, or the like. Might work through the vent. Just a thought. YMMV.

~Rich

[hart]

I assume there's a reason you can't just crank up the motor and go drain the ballast the normal way.

I'm just brainstorming here so this might not work but they sell electric pumps for fishtanks called powerheads (look at a pet store or even at walmart). Anyway, you could run tubing through the vent hole to a powerhead and then run tubing from the powerhead--- somewhere. To the galley sink would probably be best since these things aren't really designed to move water over distance. Anyway, I've got a couple that claim to move something like 500 gallons per hour. Under these conditions if I assume the rate is cut in half you're looking at what? Something like 30 or 40 minutes to drain the ballast. They make bigger ones too.

[EasyLuckyFree]

Well.. It was 67 degrees today. Winter is over.. and the ballast never froze. I was walking on ICE in 8 degree weather to check on it. Each week I checked and the ballast was never frozen, or even slush.. Good to know.
Thanks for the advise. Happy Sailing

[puggsy]

Me and Oskar here in Western Australia thankfully do not have your freezing problems...but in no circumstances would i risk putting a split in the ballest tank. Empty it out. Water does expand an awfult lot when it turns freezes...and if some water is caught in any little part where it can be trapped, it could still freeze and cause a split. Puggsy