Australian Macgregor Racing Rules

[brianhar]

As an extension to the Topic on forming an Association, I want to start a discussion on making a set of racing rules for the Mac.

My primary reson for this was stated in the Association forum. The current CBH is wrong, and I want to fix it. Another reason for doing this sooner rather than later, is that more and more of us are modifying our Macs. That makes it harder and harder to have a level playing field and have a one handicap suits all where having the one handicap is a true reflection on the fleet for the purpose of racing.

Realising that Macs will never be high speed racers and also that the majority of owners are not inclined to modify their boats to get that added pinch of porformance, we need to ahve a set of rules that appeals to all. I fully intend to leave my LCD TV, fridge etc in the boat and don't want to see stripped out boats like some other classes have. It just makes too big a gap between the racers and the cruisers. I believe that we can achieve both

I've plagurised a set of racing rules together from a number of associations and have tried to make it suitable for the general Mac owner. I distributed a couple of copies out during Easter to get the ball rolling. If any one else wants a set, PM me and I'll send a copy off to you. It's a word document of 4 pages. If I knew how to attach them to this thread I would. Maybe Kevin would like to host them on his website and I can post a link to them. How about it Kevin?

I really want comment on this, I have a couple of areas that I believe could become quite contentious. I clearly have a direction that I want to go, but I'm confident that there will be different opinions and invite them with open arms.

Comments please!

[ubi_est_via]

Will you be having 2 sets of rules or should I say 2 different handicaps?.....One for the fast Blue boats & one for the slower whire ones!

Sorry couldn't miss the chance for a stir...Cheers, John

[rockman]

People who want to race need a set of rules - to ensure they can so whatever is possible to maximise their chance of winning.

Issues like ballast - I know one mac sailer that races without his ballast.

[brianhar]

I sent an e-mail to the President of the Victorian Trailable Council (Rob Ballard). In this e-mail I have asked if we could start the process (with the Trailable Council's assistance) of getting the racing rules looked at and a boat measured as part of the pathway to getting our CBH reviewed. I have raced with Rob a few times at Geelong Trailable Yacht Club and put it to him that he use my last Winter race results, coupled with the upcoming winter season results to assist with formulating a CBH somewhere in the region of .6 to .62 instead of the .715 that it is now. I promise that I race fast and not deliberately throw the series to get a slower handicap

I'll post reults on that as time comes to pass.

John,
whilst I too own a fast blue boat, there is no way I would show mercy to a white boat by giving it a headstart by having a different handicap. Let's just leave them in our wake where they belong! If that doen't get a reaction nothing will.

Rockman,
this is one of the issues that need to be discussed through before adopting a set of racing rules. Ironically I can argue on both sides of this argument e.g.
As all boats have the ability to take on ballast or not, and it would be the skippers decision as to use or not use ballast as the skipper believes is viable and safe according to the conditions at the time. This would also broaden the ability to increase the light air performance when required. I contend that there should be no ruling that stipulates that full ballast be mandatory when racing.

The manufacture states that when sailing the ballast must be in. As an association we would have a 'duty of care' not to go against a safety requirement stipulated by the manufacturer. Would be a curiuos legal point of contention should a Mac go under whilst sailing in a MacNationals with no ballast. Also I believe that by having all Macs sailing with ballast in will broaden the confidence of the skippers who normally would not take part in a race, to feel safe enought to give it a go.

See, I can argue both ways.

Another point to discuss is say backstays. We all know that they will aid sailing performance, however the average skipper will never fit one. This then broadens the gap between the standard boat, and the 'race' Mac.

Then there's weighted centreboards too!

Keep it coming!

Brian

P.S. So far I've only had the one request for a set of the 'Race Rules that I drafted.

[rockman]

If you sail without the ballast - then the space that the water normally occupies, would be addional buoyancy. So if the boat tipped over wouldn't it be more likely to not sink?

[brianhar]

Rockman,
whilst the boat may be more bouyant upside down, I must note the the following issues ;
very difficult to dock,
sail settings may be difficult to set,
I may have difficulties getting my next beer without SCUBA gear,
motor may be difficult to start,
prop may make strange noise,
and worse of all, the admiral may have gotten wet.

Brian

[Lease]

For the reasns mentioned above, and a thousand more bsides, I just can't see there being a way to establish a set of 'one-design' type rules. In fact I would go further and suggest that it should be declared a mixed class, with handicaps sorted out according to formulas used in mixed yacht racing. Trying to establish measurement rules is going to a bad place altogether, because if you stick to the standard configuration, you get a boat that doesn't go. On the other hand, if you let folks develop their boats through racing, the developments will come that can be used by all.

[brianhar]

Lease,
I appreciate the input, however I think that you may have missed the point. Whilst I am trying to generate some discussion in regards to a set of race rules, I'm not trying to do anything different to any other Trailable Yacht class. They have been able to establish a set of box rules in most cases. Stating maximums on sail area, minimum gear carried etc. I suggest that you PM me with your e-mail address so that I can send you a copy of the Draft rules that I have put together. Have a good look through and share your thoughts with us please.

Myself, I would love to have a backstay, a weighted centreboard and a monster spinnaker. However, I suspect that the majority of Mac owners are not that way inclined. Opportunity to experiment with sail types, rigging arrangements I would like to see remain open to modification by owners to suit their individual quirks.

However to have individual handicaps per yacht (as per keel boats) is an administrative nightmare. Having that system recognised by Yachting Australia for just one trailable class would also be very difficult. I think that it would be much easier to fall in with the pack of the existing trailable classes and just have the one handicap across the class.

Whilst I agree that the Mac as it comes out of the box is poorly set up to sail well, however with a couple of simple mods the sailing performance becomes acceptable. I don't think that anyone who bought a Mac thought that they were getting a thoughbred racing machine, and frankly I don't believe that given a free reign on performance enhancing modifications that the boat could ever become as fast as say a Castle 650, Noelex 25, or a Seaway. Personally I'll be happy if I can get the boat up to the same performance level as a Boomerang or Farr 6000. Whilst we don't sail that fast, dang we look good though!

How about we just get a set of box rules established, recognised by Yachting Australia and as the class develops we develop the rules further to suit those of us who want to race.

Another point that needs to be raised is in regards to those boats who have already modified their boats so much that they would be situated outside the 'box' rule. My suggestion is that we adopt a grandfather clause that recognises these modifications done to those boats, document (and photograph) the differences and move on with no additional handicap/penalty to that owner.

Brian

[brianhar]

To help with filling the draft rules a bit more and also as part of the Yachting Australia recognition, is there an owner who is willing to submit their boat for official measurement (preference would be for Melbourne area). I'll submit my at the time as well. I have no idea when this would be, however it won't be until the rules are settled and agreed upon.

Thanks

Brian

[brianhar]

I finally got a response from Yachting Victoria Trailable Division today in regards to getting our CBH sorted out.

Based on the information that I have given him he has awarded us an interim CBH of 0.625, from our previous 0.715. Whilst I don't think that it low enough, it's a lot closer than what we had before. He was very keen to try and find out the history on what the current CBH was based on.

The CBH committee has not done a new CBH for some time and are looking forward to setting one for us. He wants me to send in the paperwork as soon as possible to start the process off. I am very keen to have the new CBH in place before the next sailing season starts (ironically I primarily race in Winter).

I mentioned that my questions in regards to costs etc have not been answered very well, and he will sort that out for us. We seem to have caused a bit of excitement.

I will use my boat for the offical measurement for the , however I still need an owner in Melbourne to volunteer to have their boat measured.

As a basis of proof for convincing your local club to adopt our new interim CBH of 0.625, send me a PM and I will forward you the e-mail that he sent me.

It's a small step towards getting the CBH sorted out, however it is a forward step.

Keep the discussions going.

Brian

[Lease]

Well persisted Brian.

I reckon 580 would be fair.

[Clemo]

Brian, I see the Association tread forging ahead, go for it, I say.

On "racing rules", I'm wondering if the sub set of Macs imported into Aus might not already exhibit a set of comon "modifications". If we all have furling headsails, then we hardly need recognise hanked on jibs.

What I'm thinking is that a "box rule" may have been extablished by the importers operating here thus far.

For our purposes, subtle differences, like fridge/freezer V esky, full V empty, XXXX V Toheys V Carlton or VB or Boags, shouldn't stand in the way of setting up a "standard Mac" for a rating.

I'm guessing that the only real variation will be a spinnaker or not. And, should we decide on the day that, a couple of boats with kites can race each other or keep their kites stowed and race with the rest of the Macs then, up to the skippers on the day.

Would other T/S fleets accept us with two sub sets, Kite or no?

Tks
& not wanting to distract U from the Association thread.
Clemo,
C ya.