MacGregor sailing performance
Folks I hope I didn't offend anyone (especially Moe) for passing on a derogatory comment of my friend. He was talking about a 22. I'm certainly not a troll. What I can conclude from your comments is that the Mac doesn't sail like a dog and has a whole lot of versatility. I've never been interested in racing so I think this is the boat for me! How much better is the M over the X?
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mike
- Captain
- Posts: 812
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:06 pm
- Location: MS Gulf Coast "Wind Dancer" 98 26X
There have been numerous pleadings for a M vs. X face-off, but I don't think it's ever happened. It's fair to say that the M, with its lack of a big centerboard trunk, rotating mast, and taller rig, probably is indeed a bit faster than the X.Bencoles wrote:I've never been interested in racing so I think this is the boat for me! How much better is the M over the X?
When we bought our boat (exactly one year ago yesterday), the deciding factor ended up being the interior layout... while the 04 M was very nice, we simply liked the 26X layout much better. Had the current M, with the more X-like interior been available then, the decision would have been much more difficult. Of course, new vs. used price was a factor too.
--Mike
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Mark Prouty
- Admiral
- Posts: 1723
- Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Madison, WI Former MacGregor 26X Owner
The Mac 26 is a mighty sailing boat.
Performance is sure and true.
I've taken it on a little lake and plan on the ocean blue.
My sailboat is the fastest in the world, she'll do 32.
If you can find a faster one, I would not doubt you.
If there is no wind, I can tow a kiddy toy.
Otherwise, sailing is just quite a joy.
If you have a girl friend like Tampa Mac.
You can take pictures of her. She has quite a rack.
If you're like Kevin, you'll watch you wife take an on-deck shower.
Then share a glass of wine and while away each hour.
In conclusion, she's a boat you just can't ignore.
What other boat can you sail all day and then drag up on shore?
Buying a Mac 26 is a decision you won't regret.
Besides being a mighty fine boat, she's a chick magnet.
Performance is sure and true.
I've taken it on a little lake and plan on the ocean blue.
My sailboat is the fastest in the world, she'll do 32.
If you can find a faster one, I would not doubt you.
If there is no wind, I can tow a kiddy toy.
Otherwise, sailing is just quite a joy.
If you have a girl friend like Tampa Mac.
You can take pictures of her. She has quite a rack.
If you're like Kevin, you'll watch you wife take an on-deck shower.
Then share a glass of wine and while away each hour.
In conclusion, she's a boat you just can't ignore.
What other boat can you sail all day and then drag up on shore?
Buying a Mac 26 is a decision you won't regret.
Besides being a mighty fine boat, she's a chick magnet.
Last edited by Mark Prouty on Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here are Macgregor's comparison of the 26X and 26M and their list of changes to the 26M for 2005.
Although MacGregor claims the 26M to be "amazingly" faster than the 26X under power and sail, the published maximum speed for under power is down from 24 to 22 mph. While some of the changes should indicate increased speed, the deadrise of the 26M has increased from the 8 degrees of the X to 15 degrees. All other things being equal, greater deadrise (deeper V) will cut through the waves better in a head sea, but will roll more in a beam sea and at anchor, has less lift and takes more power to plane, and requires more power to maintain a given speed. There are powerboat companies that offer the same boat with different degrees of deadrise for these reasons. The bottom line is that speeds may actually be essentially a wash.
You have to read MacGregor's material with a very cynical eye. Roger's forte is marketing, and whatever he's selling that day is the best. For example, in the X days, he forewarned us about the M,
"The MacGregor 26 has a permanent backstay. We consider this to be an absolute essential for keeping the forestay tight (for proper sail shape) and for keeping the mast from collapsing forward when sailing downwind. Other builders' omission of this critical support is something of a triumph of hope over reality."
and
"Avoid interiors that have fabric bonded to the walls and ceilings. They are hard to dry, and mildew badly."
The Ms that are mostly on the used market now are the late-2003 and 2004 Ms. While some like the layout, it didn't take MacGregor long to realize, that in general, it was a mistake. There was no longer a dedicated dinette, and to get in front of the galley, you had to stand with the left leg on the cockpit sole, and the right leg bent with the knee on the seat. The table had to be folded down, not only to reach the galley, but for many occupants, especially those in the cockpit, to reach the head, which had been moved forward. There was also no storage for an ice chest, simply a cut-out in the foam, where you could trade-off berth space for a cooler location. It didn't take them long to redesign the 2005 models.
The '05 brought back the side dinette, however the end of the forward seat is totally blocked by the daggerboard trunk, so the table is slightly narrower to allow occupants to squeeze in the forward seat. The aft dinette seat now houses an optional cooler, but it is narrower than the X's, IMHO, only being adequate for two small children or one adult, i.e. a 3 seat dinette in the M (vs the 5 Roger claims) vs a 4 seat in the X. That's okay. Even in the X days, he claimed the dinette made into a double bed (which is 54" wide) when it's just twin size (39" wide).
The galley is back on the port side now, with a novel sliding feature that lets you put it back in the aft berth. That was required because on the forward port seating, the forward occupant is now looking directly into the head, and the aft occupant is looking directly at the centerboard trunk, instead of at the occupants at the dinette. The aft occupant also has very little footroom between the seat and centerboard trunk.
The worst problem, IMHO, is that the head is aft of the starboard side of the V-berth, where on the X, the dinette seat back can be removed to extend the sleeping area for a taller occupant there. With some creativity, the port side of the V-berth could be extended, but the sleeper there would be looking directly into the head, and the sleeper on the starboard side would have to crawl over them to go to the head at night.
The head being forward in the M breaks up the view, and it doesn't have the open, spacious feeling of the X. They try to address that with a mirror, but that isn't a substitute. The tan interior, along with the dark, thin, flimsy feeling wood bulkheads and door for the head make the interior more dark and closed in, at least to us. The forward head bulkhead doesn't even go all the way down to the cockpit sole.
The Potti now sits on a fiberglas shelf in the '05, making use of a taller, higher capacity Porta-Potti impractical. That's a step backwards from the '03-'04 M, even though the '05 head is a little larger.
While the cockpit is the same length, the M loses footroom to the tall step forward. Some of that is recovered by putting the steering on a pole rather than a pedestal. Nevertheless, the M cockpit feels more cramped to me despite the helm being back over the outboard. I'd miss the X's back porch, where I can stand while raising or lowering the helm seat.
Boarding next to the outboard on the X is already tight, and is so tight on the M, it wouldn't be possible for us. So the point of having a swim ladder there would be lost.
We REALLY wanted to buy a new X, but that wasn't possible. When considering a used late-model X versus a new '05 M, the X would've won hands down, even had they been the same price and there was no $8,000-$9,000 savings.
That's our perspective... I'm sure others are different. Until they produce a swing keel boat with the X layout again, we won't be buying a new Mac.
--
Moe
Although MacGregor claims the 26M to be "amazingly" faster than the 26X under power and sail, the published maximum speed for under power is down from 24 to 22 mph. While some of the changes should indicate increased speed, the deadrise of the 26M has increased from the 8 degrees of the X to 15 degrees. All other things being equal, greater deadrise (deeper V) will cut through the waves better in a head sea, but will roll more in a beam sea and at anchor, has less lift and takes more power to plane, and requires more power to maintain a given speed. There are powerboat companies that offer the same boat with different degrees of deadrise for these reasons. The bottom line is that speeds may actually be essentially a wash.
You have to read MacGregor's material with a very cynical eye. Roger's forte is marketing, and whatever he's selling that day is the best. For example, in the X days, he forewarned us about the M,
"The MacGregor 26 has a permanent backstay. We consider this to be an absolute essential for keeping the forestay tight (for proper sail shape) and for keeping the mast from collapsing forward when sailing downwind. Other builders' omission of this critical support is something of a triumph of hope over reality."
and
"Avoid interiors that have fabric bonded to the walls and ceilings. They are hard to dry, and mildew badly."
The Ms that are mostly on the used market now are the late-2003 and 2004 Ms. While some like the layout, it didn't take MacGregor long to realize, that in general, it was a mistake. There was no longer a dedicated dinette, and to get in front of the galley, you had to stand with the left leg on the cockpit sole, and the right leg bent with the knee on the seat. The table had to be folded down, not only to reach the galley, but for many occupants, especially those in the cockpit, to reach the head, which had been moved forward. There was also no storage for an ice chest, simply a cut-out in the foam, where you could trade-off berth space for a cooler location. It didn't take them long to redesign the 2005 models.
The '05 brought back the side dinette, however the end of the forward seat is totally blocked by the daggerboard trunk, so the table is slightly narrower to allow occupants to squeeze in the forward seat. The aft dinette seat now houses an optional cooler, but it is narrower than the X's, IMHO, only being adequate for two small children or one adult, i.e. a 3 seat dinette in the M (vs the 5 Roger claims) vs a 4 seat in the X. That's okay. Even in the X days, he claimed the dinette made into a double bed (which is 54" wide) when it's just twin size (39" wide).
The galley is back on the port side now, with a novel sliding feature that lets you put it back in the aft berth. That was required because on the forward port seating, the forward occupant is now looking directly into the head, and the aft occupant is looking directly at the centerboard trunk, instead of at the occupants at the dinette. The aft occupant also has very little footroom between the seat and centerboard trunk.
The worst problem, IMHO, is that the head is aft of the starboard side of the V-berth, where on the X, the dinette seat back can be removed to extend the sleeping area for a taller occupant there. With some creativity, the port side of the V-berth could be extended, but the sleeper there would be looking directly into the head, and the sleeper on the starboard side would have to crawl over them to go to the head at night.
The head being forward in the M breaks up the view, and it doesn't have the open, spacious feeling of the X. They try to address that with a mirror, but that isn't a substitute. The tan interior, along with the dark, thin, flimsy feeling wood bulkheads and door for the head make the interior more dark and closed in, at least to us. The forward head bulkhead doesn't even go all the way down to the cockpit sole.
The Potti now sits on a fiberglas shelf in the '05, making use of a taller, higher capacity Porta-Potti impractical. That's a step backwards from the '03-'04 M, even though the '05 head is a little larger.
While the cockpit is the same length, the M loses footroom to the tall step forward. Some of that is recovered by putting the steering on a pole rather than a pedestal. Nevertheless, the M cockpit feels more cramped to me despite the helm being back over the outboard. I'd miss the X's back porch, where I can stand while raising or lowering the helm seat.
Boarding next to the outboard on the X is already tight, and is so tight on the M, it wouldn't be possible for us. So the point of having a swim ladder there would be lost.
We REALLY wanted to buy a new X, but that wasn't possible. When considering a used late-model X versus a new '05 M, the X would've won hands down, even had they been the same price and there was no $8,000-$9,000 savings.
That's our perspective... I'm sure others are different. Until they produce a swing keel boat with the X layout again, we won't be buying a new Mac.
--
Moe
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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
- Admiral
- Posts: 2043
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:36 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Tampa, Florida 2000 Mercury BigFoot 50HP 4-Stroke on 26X hull# 3575.B000
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Catigale
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10421
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:59 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Admiral .............Catigale 2002X.......Lots of Harpoon Hobie 16 Skiffs....Island 17
- Contact:
My 26X story
Bencoles - let me share my experience with Catigale, my 26X
I grew up on Lake Ontario, and sailed in friends keel boats. In 1994, I had moved to Albany NY, near the upper Hudson River, and was on newsgroups asking all sorts of 'beginner' questions
One of them was - I am 15 miles from open river where I can sail, why cant I get a keel boat that can power at 15 knots so I dont spend all day getting to my sail spot??
A serious off shore sailer wrote me a nice post explaining displacement vs planing, and hull speed, and then said:
The boat for you is the Macgregor - all of the purists will degrade it, but it is a boat you can use.
My log from this year (not finished yet) includes:
Lake Erie
Lake Ontario
Cayuga Lake
Erie Canal
Oswego Canal/Ontario
Woods Hole MA
Nantucket (my first foray into Salt Water!)
and about 50 day trips on the Hudson from Troy to Catskill
...and Im 43 years old working full time....
I grew up on Lake Ontario, and sailed in friends keel boats. In 1994, I had moved to Albany NY, near the upper Hudson River, and was on newsgroups asking all sorts of 'beginner' questions
One of them was - I am 15 miles from open river where I can sail, why cant I get a keel boat that can power at 15 knots so I dont spend all day getting to my sail spot??
A serious off shore sailer wrote me a nice post explaining displacement vs planing, and hull speed, and then said:
The boat for you is the Macgregor - all of the purists will degrade it, but it is a boat you can use.
My log from this year (not finished yet) includes:
Lake Erie
Lake Ontario
Cayuga Lake
Erie Canal
Oswego Canal/Ontario
Woods Hole MA
Nantucket (my first foray into Salt Water!)
and about 50 day trips on the Hudson from Troy to Catskill
...and Im 43 years old working full time....
Thanks for all the replies
To begin, I was asked what plane I fly. I have 1020 hours in the A7D, 1100 hours in the F16 Block 30 (NVG/TGT POD/DataLink). Been to the Sandbox too many times. Due to unit conversion, now flying the KC135. Oh well.
To clarify my post last night, this will be our learning boat. I really appreciate all the replies. I'm hooked!!! I'm going to look into the X and the M before making a final decision. One of my concerns is that living in Iowa, I'm not going to travel across the country to look at used boats. The internet is great but I'm not going to buy a vessel without looking at it. Hence I'm leaning towards a new boat unless I hear of some used ones in the local area (150 miles).
My wife is more at home on the water than I am so I'm not selling her on this, rather she's convinced me. All of you have sold me that this is the boat for us. If any of you know of a top notch used X in the upper midwest, I'd appreciate hearing about it. We are going to Kearny Nebraska this weekend to look at a 2005 M.
Again, thanks for the posts and I look forward to talking with all of you in the future. Apologies in advance as I can be a bit opinionated at times. I can't wait to "Join the Club".
RED SKY AT NIGHT..SAILORS DELIGHT, RED SKY IN THE MORNING.. TOO MUCH RUM THE NIGHT BEFORE (Old Walleye Fisherman's Proverb)
To clarify my post last night, this will be our learning boat. I really appreciate all the replies. I'm hooked!!! I'm going to look into the X and the M before making a final decision. One of my concerns is that living in Iowa, I'm not going to travel across the country to look at used boats. The internet is great but I'm not going to buy a vessel without looking at it. Hence I'm leaning towards a new boat unless I hear of some used ones in the local area (150 miles).
My wife is more at home on the water than I am so I'm not selling her on this, rather she's convinced me. All of you have sold me that this is the boat for us. If any of you know of a top notch used X in the upper midwest, I'd appreciate hearing about it. We are going to Kearny Nebraska this weekend to look at a 2005 M.
Again, thanks for the posts and I look forward to talking with all of you in the future. Apologies in advance as I can be a bit opinionated at times. I can't wait to "Join the Club".
RED SKY AT NIGHT..SAILORS DELIGHT, RED SKY IN THE MORNING.. TOO MUCH RUM THE NIGHT BEFORE (Old Walleye Fisherman's Proverb)
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
You might give Bill at Boats 4 Sail a ring. He sells boats almost anywhere, I'm sure he could get one to you in Iowa. He is a regular on this board and has a good reputation.
http://www.boats4sail.info/
http://www.boats4sail.info/
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MAC26X
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:57 pm
- Location: Sandusky, OH 2001 Mac26X Anne Marie Honda 50
Brian,
John at SuperSport Marine in Kearney is very knowledgeable and will be a good asset. He does a great job rigging with all lines aft, topping lift, boom vang, furler, and all the things that make sailing easy. He sells and delivers boats all over the midwest. We bought our 2001 X from John and I recommend him highly.
John at SuperSport Marine in Kearney is very knowledgeable and will be a good asset. He does a great job rigging with all lines aft, topping lift, boom vang, furler, and all the things that make sailing easy. He sells and delivers boats all over the midwest. We bought our 2001 X from John and I recommend him highly.