Keel Lock Down Bolt

[ChockFullOnuts22]

With the keel locked in the down position, assuming a very hard hit on something on the bottom, I suppose it would be possible to cause some sort of damage to the lock bolt holes---maybe elongation. However, since the keel's movement is locked, I would assume that the chances for any real damage to occur would be minimal, if that. Resting the keel on the lock bolt, however, can produce much more damage if the weight of the keel is allowed to swing uncontrolled against the bolt.

There is damage around the lock down bolt hole -- it is elongated to about 4"! This did not happen during the knockdown. I don't think it is a result of the top of the keel resting against the bolt in normal use either. I have had the keel cable break twice during the last 30 years. The keel came crashing down with considerable force. The combined weight and leverage actually bent the lock bolt into a U shape and ripped the fiberglass several inches.

[flynfol]

My grounding was against solid rock(uncharted) at about 4 knots(it stopped the boat). My guess is the impact was higher on the keel lessening the leverage to the bolt. It bent the bolt, with no damage to the trunk. It was previously repaired, and reinforced(note previous pics). I agree with the swinging keel( large moment and inertia) impacting the bolt when not locked, which is what caused my keel damage to begin with. Note that an elongated hole at the keel lockbolt position is above the water line, and should not fill the boat. For that matter neither did the damage that occurred by the PO on my boat.

[MD Dunaway]

I read all the posts with interest. There are obviously a number of reasons to raise the keel but it sounds like not having the keel locked down is asking for trouble. Damage from keel motion is possible and the boat is less likely to right itself. The Macgregor literature says that it is OK to lower the keel against the bolt under certain circumstances but as a general rule I suspect it is better to keep it locked down.

[ChockFullOnuts22]

The reason that MacGregor says to it is sometimes okay to rest the keel against the lockdown bolt is because of possibility of grounding or hitting underwater objects while under way, if you are sailing in an area where you reasonably expect to hit bottom (--page 3 of V21/22/25 MacGregor Manual). The idea is that if you're sailing along and suddenly strike an object with the keel, the keel will be allowed to "ride up" on top of the unseen obstruction while allowing the boat to continue moving. However, if the keel is locked down, the boat's sudden stop could mean injuries to the crew (no seatbelts on sailboats, right?), the boat being forced over, etc. You do risk damage to the boat if the keel is on its way up into the trunk and then drops abruptly, but you run less risk of getting hurt, yourself, if the keel hits something on the bottom.

However, if you are sailing out in water deeper that your draft, and know you're far from sand bars/reefs/sunken wrecks/etc, then use of the lockdown bolt would definitely be desirable in heavy seas. If you're ever knocked down, you want that keel to stay in the down position so that its center of gravity "levers" the boat back upright as fast as possible.

[Pete]

Based on the discussion here, I would say the macgregor manual was wrong to suggest lowering the keel with bolt in place. Also the only reported damage in this area has been a result in following the manuals advice. There has been a lot of speculation of what might happen in certain situations I.e. groundings and capsize ect, and what damage might result. These speculations are not necessary wrong but I don't believe anyone has reported hull damage from the keel pivoting back into the trunk in a capsize or dropping back down after passing over a submerged object. Personally I think the benefit of being able to raise the keel quickly out weighs any benefit locking it down provides. Even if I found myself in rough weather I would rather have the option of raising the keel and head for shallow waters, possibly beaching until things calmed down.

Pete

[ChockFullOnuts22]

Yeah, I would never follow the MacGregor manual and rest the keel against the bolt, especially after reading what people have posted here about the damage that can occur. If the keel isn't going to be locked down while in use, I don't know why MacGregor tells the owner to install the bolt in the first place--it's not like the boat is going to fill with water if the bolt isn't installed. I never install my lock bolt (mine's a quick-release type, like a landing gear pin), and the holes in the trunk never ever leak into the boat. Some people complain of splash getting in, but it doesn't happen on my boat.

I would say that the only time to install the lock down bolt would be if/when it was desired to lock the keel down; otherwise, just leave it out of the trunk altogether.

Personally, if I was caught out on the lake in really heavy winds and/or high swells, I would want that keel locked until I got in close to shore. Having a quick-release lock pin, that's easy for me to say. For you guys who have an actual threaded bolt and nut, I can understand your aversion to installing the bolt and then having to rush to un-thread the thing in tight situations.

[JoeVacs]

I personally would rather trust real world experience than the manufacturers suggestions on pretty much everything. I glassed over the hole for my lock down bolt and when I rebuilt the keel I covered that hole too. If weather is so bad that I am concerned about a knock down, I'm not going to still have the sails up anyway. ( That's just me )

[Kenny25]

After 52 posts maybe it's time to move on to another topic. PLEASE!!

[JoeVacs]

After 52 posts maybe it's time to move on to another topic. PLEASE!!

By all means, you are free to move on... ??? ( 52 posts means that some on here must be interested).

[ChockFullOnuts22]

After 52 posts maybe it's time to move on to another topic. PLEASE!!

By all means, you are free to move on... ??? ( 52 posts means that some on here must be interested).

Seconded.

[Pete]

With 55 posts we have the longest running thread in the Venture section. There should be a prize.

[Kenny25]

I've read all 56 posts and I'm still not sure what to do

[ChockFullOnuts22]

With 55 posts we have the longest running thread in the Venture section. There should be a prize.

Free lockdown bolts for everybody?

[johnnyonspot]

I think I posted this before, but anyway. I always let the keel all the way down and then tightened the cable a so the keel would be suspended by it, rather than resting against the lockdown bolt. Never had any problems, no danger of bending lockdown bolt or causing damage that way, cables can be re-swaged and replaced if needed. Only time I would lock the keel down would be if in deep water for an extended period of time, like a long ocean passage, which I would probably not opt to do in the Mac 25.

[jfb]

Hi, JF new owner of a Macgregor25
Restoring it has been fun, now getting ready for water in the Deux montagne bassin / lake.
That spot has many sand banks so not planing on having the lock bolt in locked position.
But ... well i was curious as to why my lock bolt was jammed 3" into the hull ... after reading these post i now understand why its that way.
So i guess I would just leave it there, its in a "U" shape and stuck, or should I remove it and patch the hole ?
will send pics once it's in the water and sails up
on and yes, my keel cable was snapped