Need advice on suitable dinghy

[curtis from carlsbad]

Thanks to everyone over the last 6 months.You guys helped me decide on the Mac, and a suitable tow vehicle. Now I must decide on a dinghy that will fit my needs. I want to tow it behind the Mac only on trips to Catalina Island from Long Beach.The crossing is open ocean around 23 miles.I want to power at max safe speed depending on conditions(towing the dink) on Saturday morning, spend the weekend at the island then return to Long Beach about 3:30 PM on Sunday( under power towing the dink).These trips will only be done during the late Spring through the end of Summer so it wont get dark until about 7:30 -8:45 PM depending on the month.I will always be prepared to stay at the Island through Mon. or Tue. if it is too windy or othrwise unsafe to make the crossing.I will normally be accompanied by many other boaters taking this route as it is a common weekend trip around here. These are my requirements : I will require the dink to be able to safely hold around 6 adults in a emergency ( just to float ).I will have an emergency beacon ,flares, food and water,wool sweaters/clothing/windbreakers in a thick drybag firmly attached to the dink.The dink must also be able to be used for ship to shore (6 people transport, probably betwen 50'-500' away most of the time ). It is not very important for me at this time for the dink to have an outboard but might be in the future. I dont want to spend more than $350 . I want the dink to be always deployed in the water to serve as a lifeboat should the motor/boat catch on fire suddenly ( I might not have time to deploy a raft that is lashed to the foredeck if 24 gallons of fuel are involved ).Seeing the dink already in the water would also be comforting to my crew on such a long trip. The options for a dink that I have been considering are: 12.5' x 4'3" ? Daisy Dory Skiff (I can buy a handmade one here in Carlsbad for $350 ). It is made from plywood/fibreglass(cartoppable for the Suburban). It can be rowed and possibly powered.Reports on the internet however claim that it is tippy so I don't like this and I don't think it can carry 6 people maybe only 4. This probably won't work but I am going to look at one today just to remove any doubt. The second option is a towable water toy that can handle 6 in an emergency. One that I like is the "Great Big Mabel" www.sportsstuff.com . I can get it new on Ebay and other websites for around $ 300. It is about 8'x 9'and can seat four comfortably in kind of a lounge chair position. It would be a nice big lounge chair once anchored or moored for taking in the sights around the island.It looks like it could easily hold 6 in an emergency and the people could snuggle close together to stay warm although the air temp is nice this time of year. It also looks like it would be fun to tow 1 or 2 of my kids( age 7 and 9) on the way to the island. My wife could face aft to keep a close eye on them for safety.I could tie the emergency drybag to this towable quite easily. I could paddle it with a kayak or canoe paddle for ship to shore.What I wonder is : Would there be a lot of drag in windy conditions while towing it ( no riders but emergency bag lashed in center) or would it repeatedly flip over at 9-15 mph and become a pain.Another potential problem might be durability-Would it last 2 seasons being towed so far like this? I will mak about 6-8 of thse trips each season. I would rinse and cover it when not in use. Would it affect sailing performance while being towed with only the emergency drybag? I don't want to spend the $1000 dollars or more on a zodiac type dink . If there are mistakes in my thinking please pipe up. Any advice to help me decide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone !- Curtis Becker

[Québec 1]

I'm looking at getting this kind of folding boat for my mac.
http://www.ontarioportableboats.com/cat ... 182714.htm
Q1

[waternwaves]

no dinghy towing at more than hull speed, unless it is on deck.

an inflatable that will carry that many people doe4s not fit inflated on the bow of the mac anyway.

if you do go with an inflatable, the baltiks on ebay over 3.3 meters long are probably the best ticket.

note:

really flat bottomed hardshell dinks do not tow dry. somewhat of a V is necessary in the back of the hull, and tying/lifting the bow up and hanging from a stanchion,seat rail right next to the boat seems to help

[Boblee]

We tow an aluminium dinghy for fishing, exploring and supplies everywhere but if you want or need maximum speed this is probably not an option.
You could tow it closer to reduce drag but that will inhibit you in rough conditions, ours is a v nose punt and never had a water problem when towing fast or in rough conditions, it is towed on a mooring line fitted with a snubber.

[Terry]

Put off the purchase until you can afford a zodiac style, as that is what you will need in the final analysis, think long term investment.
I tow a 9'9"Titan also known as Maxim, it would hold all six of you, 1100 lbs capacity. It has an inflatable floor and keel so the keel helps it tow and track well. You cannot travel fast with one in tow and they do slow you down, especially with a 60# outboard on the transom like I have. I hate towing those things for that reason. Without the outboard you could lash it across the bow in front of the mast. Also keep in mind that if you row, stay away from currents unless you think you can row faster than a stong current. If you think you can use it as a life raft between Catalina and the mainland, pray that someone finds you before the tidal current takes you with it., a motor is a nice saftey feature. I have never been near Catalina, I am in the PNW, but 23 miles sounds like a long ways, it is 13 miles for my crossings in the open strait and the waves do get big. It only takes a couple hours at 6 knots with the dinghy in tow. Personally, if it was my family, I would not be too cheap with their lives, I would get something that will save their lives if a mis-hap should occur.

[kadet]

Forget about towing anything that can take on water and sink because depending on sea state just about anything back there is going to get swamped at some time or another at planning speeds.

If you want to use a tow toy as transport from boat to shore I hope you and your passengers don't mind getting very wet and wind is also going to be a problem when trying to steer and row the thing over any distance. If you don’t mind getting wet why not just swim ashore with a pair of fins. But it is a practical device to tow at speed because that is what it is designed for unless unweighted it turns into a kite .

So this really restricts you to an inflatable so for six adults you are going to need a big inflatable something like 10-12 feet and for $350 I thing you would be looking for a second-hand one again not that practical for towing behind a MAC at a decent clip.

I understand what you are trying to achieve but IMHO is just not practical with a MAC unless you intend to plod around at hull speed.

I have an 8 foot inflatable on davits on the back of my it is held in place by two cleated ropes so can be dropped off the back very quickly in an emergency. Getting the outboard off the stern seat mount takes a lot longer but in an emergency I think I would just row or float around and wait for help. It is designed for 3 at 617lbs but at pinch can take 4, in an emergency I believe I could squeeze in 7 if 3 were small admirals.

23miles off shore is not that far in a populated and busy waterway. I don’t know what the sea temperature off Catalina is like but if hypothermia is not a problem a good PFD1 would be all that is needed in an emergency as help should be close at hand. Towing a dink for that unlikely one off emergency where you could use it seems overkill IMHO. Most fuel fires on a boat result in an explosion because liquid fuel does not burn only gaseous vapour burns so it is build up in the bilge that causes this. With fuel tanks on a MAC located in the self draining cockpit this is highly unlikely. Just throw several buckets of seawater over any spill to clear it quickly so you don’t get a fire risk in the first place. I always keep a bucket with rope in the cockpit as standard equipment. I know the fire pundits will tell you never use water on a fuel fire but, if you can get rid of the source before it’s a problem then do it. The likely hood of fire on a MAC is far more likely to come from the galley, so simple rule no galley cooking whilst under way.

Get a reasonable size dink that can be managed on a MAC and make two or more trips to and from shore. It will be less of a hassle than trying to tow a behemoth of a dink otr a toy behind the MAC.

[NiceAft]

Read over all of the advice posted above. They all have valid points based on their experiences, which may not match what yours will be.

I have a 9' 5" Achilles inflatable. it has a six HP motor (it is rated for eight HP) and is made to hold four adults. If you want to place six on board, you will need a larger dink than 10'. some sort of keel is needed. My Achilles has an inflatable keel. It keeps her on course.

If you have not done so yet, do a search. The search window is located at the top right corner of this page. This is a topic which has been chewed on many times.


Ray

[curtis from carlsbad]

We are going to be in a high traffic area , so the flares, emergency beacon and an air horn most likely will do the trick in a pinch. The main concern I have is the emergency drybag lashed to the towable- Will it be enough to keep the towable from "kiting" at 10-15 MPH ? The drybag would probably weigh about 25-35 lbs depending on how it is provisioned. I think this would weigh it down enough. Would this slow the mac down? This towable idea is enticing to me because of it's multiuse ( lounge chair and to tow the kids with- I know the Mac really slows down even with one kid but it would probably only be for 15-20 minutes of the way over. I talked to a powerboater with a big 28 foot Bayliner ( about an eleven foot beam) who has been going Dana Point to Catalina (40 miles each way) for many years and he told me that in a fire you really want the dink to already be in the water (although he has the big 351? single engine). I won't have to paddle too far from ship to shore and I figure with two adults (one on each side with canoe or outrigger paddles) it will probably paddle the short distance well. Also we would probably only be going ashore in very nice conditions.The two other adults on board are into camping so they would camp on shore at one of the approximately 15 boat in camping locations on the island.Then it would be just myself ,the Admiral and two kids sleeping onboard the Mac. It looks like in the video the towable "Great Big Mable " with people on it planes well in smooth water. Have any Mac owners ever towed a large towable toy without weight on it at high speed and what were the results? Another thing that entices me to this idea is that I can inflate this thing with a 12 volt rapid inflater when I get out a little past the breakwater so I won't have to watch it when going in/out of harbor. Also I won't have to heave a rigid 115 lb skiff/dinghy or aluminum boat onto the top of the Suburban by myself. I can just deflate it and stuff it into it's bag when nearing the breakwater on the way in. Send as much input as you guys can! Thanks- Curtis

[Chinook]

We use a 10 foot porta-bote as our dinghy. It's a hard sided boat which can be folded up for stowage on deck, and the hull weighs 60 lbs. There are pros and cons between inflatables and the porta-bote, but the porta-bote works well for us. One of its principal advantages is that it rows very nicely, and better than inflatables. We've towed it at a wide range of speeds, and the trick is using a towing bridle which helps keep it tracking within your wake. Also, you need a towing line which is long enough to get the dinghy back to the second wake wave behind the boat. We never tow the dinghy on major crossings, and I would definitely consider the 23 mile open ocean crossing to Catalina as a major crossing. We've swamped our dinghy once, while crossing Florida Bay to the Keys, in a 15 knot trailing wind with 4 foot following seas. Dealing with a swamped dinghy is one big mess, at best. I don't ever want it to happen again, and especially well offshore. Towing the dinghy cuts into your speed and your fuel efficiency. I recommend focusing on a dinghy you can reasonably stow, either on the foredeck or down below, and which can be easily deployed once you've reached sheltered waters. You'll find lots of good ideas on dinghy choices and stowage methods on this board.

[School House Steve]

I have a 8 foot Walker Bay. No easier boat to row but only holds 3 people. The walker 10 is a little bigger and both boats can be had with a ridged inflatable option. I have the sail package, an electric trolling motor, and 2 HP gas Evinrude. So whats the problem? I never use it. My 26M can beach it self anywhere the Walker Bay can. While we don't have to deal with tides on the Columbia or Snake rivers its not worth the trouble dragging the dingy along or storing it on deck. Haven't heard of any M 26's catching fire or sinking. What you may be looking for is an emergency life raft.

[waternwaves]

the inflatables don't swamp if you use a cover over them, and you probably could make a cover just as easy for the hardshell dinks

[kadet]

Another thing that entices me to this idea is that I can inflate this thing with a 12 volt rapid inflater when I get out a little past the breakwater so I won't have to watch it when going in/out of harbor. Also I won't have to heave a rigid 115 lb skiff/dinghy or aluminum boat onto the top of the Suburban by myself. I can just deflate it and stuff it into it's bag when nearing the breakwater on the way in. Send as much input as you guys can! Thanks- Curtis

Have you ever done this? It is a real PITA on a beach let alone on a pitching deck with little room and a wind trying to snatch the thing into the air. I have only done this with the biscuit shaped ones but that mabel looks like even a worse beast. Deflating again would be IMHO a real PITA as well.

When I started out I did not want to spend the $$$ on the davit mod but now I do not regret it one bit. If it was not for tides I would just beach the but that 6 hour wait to come home is drag. So a dingy is a necessary evil. Towing cut speed used more fuel and was a safty hazzard IMHO. The island I go to is 20 miles off shore and the savings in fuel alone will pay for the davits in about 10 or so trips so do the math. Short term savings may in the long run cost you more. Get the zodiac then get davits

check out this thread for more info http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... t=davit%2A

[CaptDave]

Sorry but your price range is the problem here, but I'll still suggest something I've had quite a few in the past from vinyl blow ups to 13' RIB novurania. I would suggest an inflatable for various reasons that suit your vessel and sea service. Non inflatable’s tend to sink easier and are heavier. Inflatable offer multi-chamber safety to the equation, lite weight and often better stability. For your price range you will not be able to acquire the best quality material generally accepted as Hypalon. For something new you will need to find a heavy duty vinyl type, once I found an Army/Navy store that had military grade inflatable’s new at this price range. Else you will need to look for something used. If you use your boat a lot and do not want to be disappointed may I suggest saving your money for a small Caribe RIB inflatable. These can be powered, rowed, towed, lashed or my favorite method for both sail and power vessels is a Weaver snap davit. Good luck on your quest, you will inevitably go through a few types and find your favorite.

[puggsy]

With a you do not NEED a dinghy...

[Boblee]

Looked at the Walker Bay jobs and was most impressed but unfortunately in our situation not practical as they are a bit close to the toothy creatures here as is anything small and/or without a motor would be dangerous.
Have never swamped or got more than a bucket full of water in the dinghy and can still get reasonable speeds for any of the open water excursions we have done including one of 70k's +.
Most of the Macs on the Whitsunday cruise had no dinghies but one who had a small one cracked us up as he was being towed by a fish, luckily he had a line to our dinghy LOL.