Anyone hear of this happening????

[Sumner]

Here is a quote of a post on another board:

Maybe someone can explain this about water ballast....On my lake, this summer, there were 2 instances of a 26' water ballasted motor sailer that snapped off the mast at the spreaders, when it popped upright after being knocked down by a gust. Both people said... the boat went over until the main was touching the water. The boat stayed that way for a few seconds, then snapped back up violently enough that the mast broke off at the spreaders. It was not especially windy those days, as I was out also, and had no trouble at all. I couldn't believe that those boats could have even been knocked down in that weather.

In my bristol 24, I've been knocked down about as far as the other boats claimed, in much higher winds, and the boat came back up smoothly, and under control.

Are the water ballast tanks baffled to prevent the water from moving too fast within?

NOTE: In a second post he said the boat/boats were Macs.

This is in the middle of this thread about water ballast.....

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners. ... p?t=114939

.... that I'm sure some of you will find interesting. I stood up for the D & S and left it up to an X or M owner to defend their boat. The thread started since I called Druid on his statements that water ballast wasn't ballast at all and on his feelings about Macs in general on this thread.......

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners. ... p?t=114872

Personally I've had it with people bashing Macs on other forums that know nothing about water ballast, the difference between different models and such. I read a lot of this before we bought our Mac and soon realize that the really negative stuff came from people who flat didn't know what they were talking about. We read through that and bought the Mac and don't regret it. We wouldn't give ours up even if someone offer us another boat free. It is the perfect boat for our needs.

I feel that other potential boat owners are reading the current bad mouthing that goes on on various forums. If they don't hear any other voices on the matter they will probably assume that it is correct and rule out buying a Mac. Me I'm going to start calling these people on their comments if they are false. I'll probably start sounding like a broken record, but I'm 65 and only have to please Ruth at this stage of my life, so I don't care.

Just though I'd throw this out there,

Sum

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[c130king]

Sum,

Interesting thread. My brain hurts...glad I never took physics in college. I think there are too many Physics Professors wannabee's in that thread...Druid needs to get a life.

As for the broken masts following "rapid" righting after a knockdown...would be very interested to find out more details of what happened and why. I agree that it is probably loose rigging. I have never been knocked down (knock on wood) and have a hard time visualizing how that would even happen due to the weather helm I face when heeled over hard. Maybe if you are not sailing very fast the wind just knocks you over rather than "heeling" you over while sailing at speed. Could you get knocked down with the sails down?

And as for the Mac bashing on that forum. I monitor sailboatowners.com but have given up on the "ask all sailors" forum. I stick with the "Ask a Macgregor Owner", "Trailer Sailors" and "Destinations"...which is why I didn't see this thread on water-ballast. I also get tired of the "purists" trashing Macgregors.

I am VERY HAPPY with the way my water-ballasted, motor/power-sailor, low-cost (thus probably lower spec and lower quality), slow-sailing, poor-motoring Macgregor performs...under sail and under power. I no longer get too worried about what non-Mac owners think.

Don't let them drag you down...we appreciate our boats, we appreciate other Mac sailors of any year, make, model, and we appreciate all those that contribute to this board.

Cheers,
Jim

[delevi]

The water is not supposed to move at all. When the tank is completely full, as it must be, the water has nowhere to move.

All sorts of boats get dismasted, lose their keels, capsize, sink, etc. Many of these boats are much more substantial and costly than a Mac. Recently a J24 lost its keel off the San Francisco coast. The boat capsized. Its 2-man crew was rescued by the coastguard just in the nick of time. So how many people will take this story and contend that J-boats are junk? Nuff said?

[Kelly Hanson East]

I read a lot of this before we bought our Mac and soon realize that the really negative stuff came from people who flat didn't know what they were talking about.

Its always amazed me how many people step foot on a sailboat and instantly acquire the knowledge of a 4 year professional mechanical engineering program. Something magical happens under a mast, I guess. Ive had conversations with sailors all over the world and found this is universal.

On sumners thread, one guy posted that since water is bouyant, it has more righting moment than air, but less than lead. Ouch.

This has been rehashed on these pages, but (in the context he was taking it) this shows (as my instructors used to say) a "fundamental misunderstanding of the concepts involved" which was academic-speak for siddown-and-shaddup.

[James V]

I have put more than 9000 miles on my 06 M. No problems. I used to run with no ballast but it was so rough that I did not want to do it any more. I keep my rig tightened to the factory recomendations. If this happened to a Mac then a couple of things could have happened, the sail was full of water and the boom was raised higher than normal. You are to release the main after a knockdown.

Also, if there was a backstay and it was adjusted to tight for some time would would break off the top of the mast. Both Captian errors.

I do not know if anybody has any bad effects from this.

Mac bashing - It happens to all boats. Most people do not do it in my face for long. I have been farther than most. The Mac is the perferect boat for Coastal Cruising and Bahamas under 30 feet.

I have found that most of the "Cruisers" will bash anything or anybody. This is what they think is fun. PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A CRUISER! This has driven many good people away from the water.

[Waterbear]

James V
The Mac is the perfect boat for the Keys. This summer (mast off/ballast out) I
routinely motored to Boca Grande thru the Lakes Area. I was able to go under
the bridge not around Flemming Key to the many snorkeling places, and with
little concern about Key West tides, harbor current, AND VERY LITTLE WIND.
I to have been refered to as the person with the "Bastard Boat" by the sailing
crowd, but it is in muffled tones and usually when I am leaving/or returning from a day on the water.
James I remember meeting you this Sept.. My life/health have stabilized. The mast
with all turnbuckles goes up soon, and my long term plans are for the Bahamas.
I'm usually at the boat every WARM day. Ron

[bubba]

delevi You talked about the J-120 sinking on the Baha HAHA ralley on the west coast of the USA and I heared that last week another J boat a 40 footer hit a sand bar and tore off the keel and washed up on the beach in Australia with a big hole in the bottom, I saw photos as the hull started to split from the hole where the keel had been. It is going to be a bad year for J boats builders. With Mono-hull racing boats like the J boats there trying to compete with catamarans and Tri-marans and by cutting hull weight to try to compete, before multi-hulls take over the racing world without giving up strength in the average performance catamaran.

We enjoy our Mac M with it's many advantages like winter launching with low water levels, keel boats that do trailer have to choose there launches very carefully ( steep and deep ) so some neighbors who have keel boats can't launch a good part of the year around here.

[James V]

James I remember meeting you this Sept

Hay Ron, I remeber talking to you as well. Great that you are doing better. I hope you cast off soon for Spring and Summer in the Bahamas. My work played out in Key West and I had to leave. I found my old job overseas and I will be going back within the month.

Have fun, James V

[Québec 1]

Any one hear of this happening?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xe_hVKWh-g

[Solitario]

Any one hear of this happening?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xe_hVKWh-g

Relaxing ... I think expresses the true philosophy of

[delevi]

delevi You talked about the J-120 sinking on the Baha HAHA ralley on the west coast of the USA

That wasn't me. You're right about the low weight of the J-boats though. Much less than most comparable boats of similar size. A bit of a scarry theme with lost keels. Perhaps just bad luck. For my money, I would go for the First 40.7 vs. J120. Almost as fast, more comfortable cabin and about half the price.