Long Distance WiFi...

[Sumner]

.........WiFi is growing everywhere and I've experimented with directional antennas. I'm interested in your WiFi solutions here. For me, WiFi just won't cut it and I've found an app that lets me connect my G3 Droid phone to my notebook. It seems to work well and I'm hoping to get service with it....--Russ

I thought I would post a new thread and not muddy up the 'solar panel' one so much.

We would like to have access to WiFi wherever/whenever possible. With the laptop we were able to pick it up at one location in Canada on Kootenay, but it was iffy and as the boat swung on anchor I would loose it. There we must of been about 300-400 yards from the nearest place that had an unsecured server.

There has been some really good discussion over on www.cruisersforum.com...

The following link is the best, but also by far the longest and takes more than a night to read through...

Long-Distance WiFi Device

This one is shorter, but also not near the info as the first one.

A Simple, Inexpensive WiFi System that Works

The next answered questions I had about the Bullet 2 HP radio that actually receives and sends to the remote server.

Bullet 2 HP

For 90% of the people out there that want long distance WiFi I would just order a system from......

Island Time PC

....I'll be able to build one for about $50 less, but his comes ready to go and you can get going on it without knowing much about computers, routers, antennas and radios. He also builds 12 volt computers similar to what I'll be doing.

I was about ready to buy one of the USB long range solutions, but after wading through all of those links feel the the Bullet 2 HP mounted on the antenna with no coax is the best solution. You don't loose all of the signal strength that you do with longer runs with coax as from the Bullet (the radio transceiver) to the computer or in our case to a wireless router you use an outdoor Ethernet cable.

Once again the reason we are doing this is mainly to try and stay in touch with the kids and friends on our long trips. I'd also like to put my trip log up while underway. The cost to do this is about $225.

I've looked into some of the phone plans, but have a hard time wading through them and then finding a carrier that might work in all the places we will be going to has been confusing.

As far as antennas go it seems that most people who have built a lot of these settle on an 8 dBi omni antenna. It is hard to get a directional to work when you are swinging on anchor. Above 8 dBi if you are in close to a marina or some other place that has a WiFi server antenna mounted high you have a good chance of missing the signal as the vertical height angle that you receive at becomes so small that you will be trying to receive under their signal. The above links can explain it better. Also as the boat rolls side to side you can miss the signal with a higher gain antenna for the same reason as you really narrow down the effective window height wise that the antenna is sending and receiving at.

I use to just think about receiving WiFi signals but we have to remember it is a two way street and if you can't broadcast back to the server from your end you won't have a connection either. There again with the radio (bullet) right at the antenna you put out a much better signal that if the radio is on a card in your computer and you are sending the signal to the antenna via a coax cable.

An interesting subject and I'd like to hear what works for any of you guys,

Sum

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[Waterbear]

I'm going Liveaboard in the Key West Mooring Field April 1. My plans are to use an ATT Air Card for my Acer Netbook.
Wi Fi was what I wanted, but for reasons I don't understand its not avalible.
I was going to start a thread on Air Cards, but thought this could be included in this thread.
My only concern with the Air Card is that it has a 5 gig monthly limit. Are movies gigabytes, is a weekly TV show
gigs, I have no idea what 5 gigs of data is?
Also the wi fi discusson in the 1st post again overwhelms me concerning my computer age ingnorance. Sometimes
trying to live lo tech. does have draw backs.

[SkiDeep2001]

Here are a couple of posts on Wi-Fi from RV.net. You might get some useful information from them. http://blog.rv.net/2010/02/hotspot-in-your-pocket/ and http://blog.rv.net/2010/01/make-a-wi-fi ... dium=email Rob

[kmclemore]

The cat's pajamas:

http://gizmodo.com/5256825/verizon-mifi ... pot-review



WiFi becomes MiFi.

My lab just finished testing it - it's very, very slick.

[Sumner]

I'm going Liveaboard in the Key West Mooring Field April 1. My plans are to use an ATT Air Card for my Acer Netbook.
Wi Fi was what I wanted, but for reasons I don't understand its not available.
I was going to start a thread on Air Cards, but thought this could be included in this thread.
My only concern with the Air Card is that it has a 5 gig monthly limit. Are movies gigabytes, is a weekly TV show
gigs, I have no idea what 5 gigs of data is?
Also the wi fi discussion in the 1st post again overwhelms me concerning my computer age ignorance. Sometimes
trying to live lo tech. does have draw backs.

First how do you know there is no WiFi there? I can't believe that their are no home users there that don't have unsecured networks. I guess you let you conscience guide you if you use them or not. Also a lot of places have WiFi that you might pay for like you do at a motel, by the day, week or month.

And last some other boaters have WiFi that they share with those nearby. Let's say I'm hooked up long distance to WiFi with my antenna/radio combination. That signal will go to my wireless router like the one you probably have hooked to DSL in your house. Now if I don't secure my network anyone nearby can pick up my network with their laptop if it has a wireless card (most all do) and get on the Internet via my connection. It sounds like a fair number of people do this at times.

If you are interested in a long distance and all the computer stuff scares you then get hold of Island Time PC. They are sailboat people and I've read many a person say they could use their equipment easily. Here is one posted two days ago on that other site:

I just purchased and installed the package available from Bob at Island Time and I've got to say that I am impressed. Everything was quite easy to install and get up and running. At 288 dollars for everything including the optional wireless router, it's quite a deal. Bob's instructions are quite clear and concise. Once again, in my opinion, it's quite a deal.

And the nice thing is that besides being fairly easy to setup and get running it is only about $50 more than if you shop for all the parts and have to figure out how to use them .

One nice thing is once you have put out the money for the long distance WiFi you are done unless you hook up to a server that wants to charge you. Still you aren't going to hookup as easily as with a phone connection or in as many places.

For us that is ok, just as long as we can get on every now and then. We don't use a cell at home, just have Net10 were we pay a flat rate of $15 a month for 150 minutes and they keep adding up between trips and we don't loose them. So by the time we are ready for the next trip we usually have 500-700 minutes built up. Good for us and we could pay 10 cents a minute for additional minutes, but haven't had to in 2 years. Works well for us, but we can't get to the Internet with it.

Maybe this will help on what 5 gigs will get you....

http://www.mobile-broadband-reviews.com/5-gb.html

c ya,

Sum

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[Sumner]

Here are a couple of posts on Wi-Fi from RV.net. You might get some useful information from them. http://blog.rv.net/2010/02/hotspot-in-your-pocket/ and http://blog.rv.net/2010/01/make-a-wi-fi ... dium=email Rob

Thanks Rob, but those are both phone hookups and we don't want to get into a phone plan for the time we are on the water. They might prove useful to someone though, thanks,

Sum

[Waterbear]

Thanks Summer:
Very useful and especially informative site on Whats 5gigs.
In my slip I do use an unsecured WiFi. The boat (26X) and myself are going 100% liveaboard about 1 mile away.
My plans are to get set up on the mooring field. Then see if there is a reliable unsecured Wifi. If not I will get the ATT
5 gig plan. Then wait to see if the 4g winclear system comes to Florida. again thanks

[Russ]

Thanks Sumner for all that great information. Wow! That's a lot to digest. It's a long way from my old Pringles Cantenna directional WiFi antenna. I used it when visiting my dad because he had no broadband and his neighbors did. There is the moral issue of borrowing bandwidth. But as I see it, unless you are downloading movies and such, the owner probably wont even notice it. Most Internet traffic is so small and mostly in quick spurts.

Where we boat there are few homes period and we often anchor in coves with tall cliffs. Cell coverage is spotty in those conditions. With our Verizon cell plan we have unlimited Internet and the USB connection and 3G gives us DSL speed connections.
Still, your long distance WiFi is very interesting. I'm gong to read through all of that stuff. As you said, if you can grab a signal that is a mile or so away, maybe there is more WiFi around than we realize.

--Russ

[Sumner]

Thanks Summer:
Very useful and especially informative site on Whats 5gigs.
In my slip I do use an unsecured WiFi. The boat (26X) and myself are going 100% liveaboard about 1 mile away.
My plans are to get set up on the mooring field. Then see if there is a reliable unsecured Wifi. If not I will get the ATT
5 gig plan. Then wait to see if the 4g winclear system comes to Florida. again thanks

If you have it now you might have it 1 mile out, but probably couldn't pick it up without the good antenna and radio, so you might not know. I'd send Bob at Island Time PC an e-mail and ask if he is familiar with that mooring. He is a cruiser and I'll bet he has been there before. He sells the equipment, but he is also always giving advice to people who didn't buy from him and are struggling trying to put their pieces together.

You and I also need to find out what we can do to protect ourselves security wise while using these networks. Usually if I'm on the road I won't use anything but a network where I'm hard wired to it with an Ethernet cable to do any bank stuff and even then you are trusting who ever owns the network to a large degree. When you go wireless you can really open a whole new can of worms. Be careful. I probably won't hook up wireless at all with my laptop that has my bank and stock market stuff on it. I won't put anything confidential on the on-board computer I'm building and the same with the laptop Ruth will use. Even with the wireless there is a lot you can do to protect yourself. We just need to read more about that aspect.

Good luck and if we get that far south next fall and you are still there maybe we will run into you,

Sum

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[Sumner]

.......... It's a long way from my old Pringles Cantenna directional WiFi antenna...........Where we boat there are few homes period and we often anchor in coves with tall cliffs. ........... As you said, if you can grab a signal that is a mile or so away, maybe there is more WiFi around than we realize.......--Russ

The Pringle solution is still going strong out there and they even make commercial imitations . I think I saw the other day were some remote village in South America actually achieved a 380 kilometer connection to a WiFi server. It is all about line of sight mostly.

If you are somewhere where there are homes chances are there is a signal out there somewhere. We never tried at Priest Lake in Idaho. The lake was lined with multimillion dollar homes and I'll bet there were a number of unsecured servers. My brother-in-law had two homes and both had/have unsecured servers in them. I can see a couple near us now where we live. You are right that most of the time you would never interfere with someone, especially posting on these sights and sending and checking e-mail.

I'm not going to mount our antenna on the mast, but off the stern and I'll just try and get it 10-12 feet off the water. That seems to be a good compromise.

Have fun reading, that is a really long thread. It took me multiple nights to get through it ,

Sum

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[Russ]

Oh yea, that Bullet2HP is a smart deal because you don't need coax runs. WiFi signals are very fragile and long cable runs equal big signal loss. Newer designs of Cantennas put the adapter into the can and run USB cable from it reducing signal loss.

Where we used to live the only broadband available was wireless. They basically used a single tower with directional antennas mounting to the house. It worked pretty good but the microwave signals are fragile and would degrade with rain and even strong wind.

You and I also need to find out what we can do to protect ourselves security wise while using these networks. Usually if I'm on the road I won't use anything but a network where I'm hard wired to it with an Ethernet cable to do any bank stuff and even then you are trusting who ever owns the network to a large degree. When you go wireless you can really open a whole new can of worms. Be careful. I probably won't hook up wireless at all with my laptop that has my bank and stock market stuff on it. I won't put anything confidential on the on-board computer I'm building and the same with the laptop Ruth will use. Even with the wireless there is a lot you can do to protect yourself. We just need to read more about that aspect.

Well you are absolutely right. If you are borrowing an unsecured over the air connection, anyone can sniff those network packets. Most banks use encryption so it's not a huge concern, but nevertheless, I wouldn't feel very safe in a Starbucks broadcasting my passwords all over.
Speaking of which...logging onto this website with your password is not encrypted. Someone sniffing an open air network can grab your password. I doubt they will be making posts here under your name. But if it's the same password as other accounts, they might gather enough about you to use that password to hack your other accounts.
So as much as it's a pain, for your financial online accounts you really should have a unique password for each of them that is not the same as an easier password you might use on this forum. I hear facebook and twitter are common targets to hack and steal information to get into other accounts. So yes, be careful.

--Russ

[Kelly Hanson East]

I use the Verizon Pantech USB modem for work - 50 USD for unlimited (same 5Gb limit applies per month)

Unless you are downloading movies, you wont get close to that limit.

[dvideohd]

In a lot of work situations, you ARE downloading movies... tutorials on UTube, Video presentations, Video Conferencing... 5G is not much when your doing a good bit of "technical work" these days....

If you are after basic text and light "surfing" - then may be it is enough....

--jr

[The Mutt]

For those with the appropriate radio licence that only needs email access, have a look at http://www.winlink.org/

I don't use them myself, I keep forgetting to take the laptop with us, eventually when the new business kicks in internet access will be essential for us.

Glenn

[KayakDan]

Sounds like Sumner and I have been trying to come up with a solution for wireless,and in my case,for Skype in the Bahamas,without paying big $$. It doesn't seem like there are a lot of good solutions
Also would like cell phone service for less than $1.14 a minute
I can get an unlocked phone and purchase a Batelco sim card,works out to $100-150.Purchase air time.
I can purchase a booster like the Wirie,that plugs into a USB port on my laptop. There's $300 spent
Same deal for the Bitstorm "Bad Boy",it's $299.
I can dinghy over to the internet cafe(hear ther'es a new one in GGT) and pay for time-1/2 hr for $6 or 8. For the 2-3 times a month I need it,this seems like the deal.

Any other good ideas for someone who isn't an electronics whiz?