Question: Big foot 60 four stroke vs Tohatsu 70 Tldi

[NYharleyrider]

My boat will be delivered in the Spring of 2005.
Of the two motors Big foot 60 four stroke and Tohatsu 70 Tldi which one would be a better choice for my 05 26M.

I can get a used, low hours fresh water 2002 Big Foot 60 delivered with all controls and prop for $4000.00 or I can get a brand new Tohatsu 70 TLDI delivered with controls and prop for $5500.00

I know the Tohatsu is about 100 lbs lighter and the Mecury Big Foot would be quieter, but my question is which one would be a better choice for the 26m. Service is not an issue. I can get both repaied at the same place and can get warranty service on the Tohatsu.

And finally, if I go with the Tohatsu 70 is the extra $1500.00 money well spent or would the difference between the two motors not be significant.

If someone has a 60 hp four stroke big foot what is your top speed.
If someone has a 70 hp Tohatsu TLDI what is your top speed.

As always, I appreciate everyone's help with my questions and now I need to make a decision.

Thank you,
Brian.

[Moe]

The Tohatsu TLDI 70 weighs 314.6 lbs according to their website, about the same as the 75-90HP Evinrude E-TECs. A 60HP Mercury BigFoot EFI four-stroke weighs 264 lbs according to theirs. So the 70 TLDI is 50 lbs heavier than the 60 BigFoot EFI. You must've been looking at the Tohatsu's kilograms.

The $1,500 would also get you a warranty which a used motor wouldn't have. From what I've read, the Tohatsu EFI doesn't have altitude compensation, and the BigFoot does, so if boating at higher altitudes is an issue, consider that. Make sure the 2002 BigFoot is an EFI. I don't know when they switched from carbs to EFI on them.

--
Moe

[NYharleyrider]

Hi Moe...

You're right. I did make a mistake about the weight. The TLDI is 50 pounds heavier. As for the Big Foot it does have EFI and I'm not in a high elevation.

However, I still don't know which motor would offer better performance on the M.

You also make a good point about the warranty for the Tohatsu.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I would expect you will find performance is very similar in the normal operating range. The 70 might give you a slightly higher top end, but in reality neither is big enough to give you the substantial increase seen with the 90's, 115's and 140's. You'll still be on that edge where you're not up on true, full plane. I've driven a M with a Suzuki 70 and it doesn't get all the way out of the hole either. (Let her rip Dimitri.)

The bigfoot has the 14" prop which is one of the important things to look for. I think I'd pick the bigfoot 60, unless somehow the additional warranty seems worth $1500. $1500 bucks will buy some nice gear to go along with the boat.

[NYharleyrider]

I appreciate your opinion Duane and I would like to hear the opinion of others too.

Since I last posted I talked with the motor dealer again and got them to lower their price once more. Now the difference between the used Big Foot vs the new TLDI is $1150.00 and the TLDI offers a four year warranty too.

Duane, you may be right that I could buy other items with the savings, but I'm also thinking how much am I saving in the long run.

I don't know what to think since this will be my first outboard bigger than a 9.9 hp

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I believe my 2000 model is the last year with carbs. I have the 50BF and get a bit more than 19 mph. With the 50's at least, I heard the first year of EFI (2001) was recalled and they replaced the motors with 2002 models.

Harleyrider, when you ask which one has the best performance, what criteria do you define for performance? In general, I would say the more HP, the better performance (unless the 70 has a smaller prop) although a 4-stroke may still be a better choice for a number of non-performance reasons. I certainly like my 4-stroke better than traditional 2-stroke's I've owned, but I've never been on a boat with a new technology 2-stroke so I can't comment on that.

Duane, if I remember your past posts, you have skied off the back of your 26X before...with 50HP. Now, how exactly could you water ski without planing? You can keep stating your position that these boats aren't planing with 50HP, let alone a 40% increase in power to 70HP...but it still doesn't make it right as the majority of the users here believe that the boat does indeed plane...don't make me bump that poll up to the top again

[Catigale]

BRian - As a fellow Canal I have to say I love my 2002 Mercury 50 HP BF. Mine is EFI, and it is as quiet as a kitten on the NYS Canals - I think it is a lot more enjoyable without the smoke and noise.

Thats a tough warranty value question - maybe you can buy some warranty on the BF?? I got three years on mine at purchase - is there some residual that transfers??

Private email me to talk direct if you want. See you in Rochester this SPring!!

Stephen

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Sorry Dimitri, you can poll all you want. It's not about perceptions, HP or speed. Planing is all about your attitude. Until the boats butt lifts out of the hole it's not on a true plane. At that time you get a speed release as well.

At WOT an M with a 70 does not leave the hole behind.

Are you going faster than hull speed, Yes.
Is part of the boat ahead of the wake, Yes.
Are you riding on only the rear planing surface, Yes.
Are you planing, No. You're still sitting on the lip with a bow up attitude.

We both need to arrange to go out in one of the big motor boats so we can once and for all agree what planing really is.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I've been on lots of big powerboats and planing characteristics vary by boat. Most powerboats plane out at a higher speed than a Mac and that is because they are a lot heavier and have deeper V hulls. The Mac is a very strange looking hull compared to most conventional planing boats of that length. I'll have to dig into the detailed science some time to see if I can prove what I have observed.

But regardless, your three "yes"es are pretty much what the definition of planing is (especially if you were to replace wake with bow wave) so "getting out of the hole" sounds like you are applying a feeling you have with other boats to a Mac. It would be nice if we had two pictures of a 26X, one going about 18 mph, the other going about 30 with a big engine (there were a couple of these pics floating around at some time). Even at the higher speed, the Mac still has that strange bow high attitude that is not typical of regular speed boats. In fact, if I remember right, it looks even more bow high than my boat does at 18.

And you do get a speed release (more like a burst) at about 12 mph, inch the throttle up ever so slightly and see how the RPM goes up when you break over that bow wave. If you were able to break over that hump under sail (like maybe when we get those big spinnakers I think you would find the boat would accelerate faster from 12 to 20 than it would from 8-12...there's our challenge.

P.S. If anyone wants to take Duane and I out on a 90+ HP 26X, that may help settle this ongoing disagreement.

[Billy]

Dimitri said:

P.S. If anyone wants to take Duane and I out on a 90+ HP 26X, that may help settle this ongoing disagreement.

I would be happy to take both of you out anytime you're in NC and show you how the Mac changes attittude after 21 mph. I don't need much of a reason to take the boat out and it stays ready. After that we can try the 150/spinnaker combination in 20+ mph winds. Sounds like a great way to spend an afternoon.

[Rolf]

Harley,
Why go with the tohat 70 when you can get the tohatsu 90 which weighs the same but costs a bit more? I just installed the tohatsu 90 and I've done 28 knots with the mast up, easy. I just installed dolefins on the motor and will have the boat in the water for Christmas week. Will report results then.
Rolf

[craiglaforce]

Drool. Drool. Tohatsu TLDI 90. Drool.
(I don't know how to spell that noise Homer makes when he thinks of
Donuts).

Seems like the best of both worlds. Mileage, peformance, reliability, and a narrow motor to help boarding at the stern.

Aren't some of the 4 strokes are so big that they can't be tilted all the way up without turning the steering wheel to one side?

[Robert]

My 2 cents: The Mercury is lightest and seems to be a good deal, as long as the engine is not a reliabilty problem, ask why is this nearly new motor once again looking for a boat to live on? If you mostly want to sail, and powering is secondary, I think the Mercury is the one to choose. If you are going to pull skis or innertubes or want to go fast then don't shop for less than 90 hp. The Mac26 is like a houseboat to a 50hp outboard, so to operate it like a decently able powerboat requires much more hp.
..
Tohatsu TLDI 70 hp Spec 2.3:1 gear ratio 315 lbs.
Outboard salesperson wants you to buy this one lowering the price
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/70tldi_spec.html
..
Mercury Bigfoot 60 hp fuel inj, 2.33:1 gear ratio 264 lbs.
Great price for this slightly used motor
http://www.mercurymarine.com/mercury_60 ... fourstroke
..
Just for comparison, since you have some time to ponder this decision, a few more outboards to consider:
..
The ETEC 90 hp Salt Water 2.25:1 gear ration 326 lbs.
No maintenance for 3 seasons will save $$$$
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/E-Tec/200 ... IN-LINE.3/
..
Tohatsu TLDI 90 hp Spec 2.0:1 gear ratio 315 lbs.
For the same weight as the TLDI 70, 20 more hp.
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/70tldi_spec.html
..
Suzuki 140 hp, 2.38:1 gear ratio, 410 lbs.
Best power to weight ratio, excellent gear ratio, and Billy likes his.
http://www.suzukimarine.com/sr05/df140/ ... _specs.php
..
Pound for pound:
4.4 lb. / hp = Mercury Bigfoot 264 lbs / 60 hp
4.5 lb. / hp = Tohatsu 70 hp 315 lb. / 70 hp
3.5 lb. / hp = Tohatsu 90 hp 315 lb. / 90 hp
3.6 lb. / hp = Evenrude Etec 90 hp 326 lb. / 90 hp
2.9 lb. / hp = Suzuki 140 hp 410 lb. / 140 hp
..
If I had to pick one of these for my use, I'd have a tough decision between the Suzuki 140, for its quiet and with my really nice Suzuki dealer relationship, or the Evenrude ETEC 90 for the freedom from maintenance for 3 years (save $200 to $400 per year plus the time to take it in), plus I like new technology. Since it is a "first year new product" situation for the ETEC, in 2005 I'd go with the proven Suzuki 140. Of course the extra hp helps out that decision. But the ETEC low maintenance, if it turns out to really be reliable, will be the lowest cost of ownership.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

But the ETEC low maintenance, if it turns out to really be reliable, will be the lowest cost of ownership.

What about fuel consumption?? If the ETEC burns much more fuel (through all normally used RPM ranges) than a 4-stroke, then your statement may not be correct. Ie, I pay a lot more for gas than I do for oil changes.

The other thing to consider is whether there is an excess HP bracket here. For me, I would really like to have at least 90HP. If this got me up to a 24-28 mph speed, that would be terrific. Maybe a 140 gets me up to 36mph? A question would be how smooth of a water would you need to go that fast in a Mac without vibrating the crap out of it. In other words, how often do you find yourself going 5-10, versus 10-18, 18-28, 28-36. You may find that you are not in the 28-36 range often enough to justify the extra 95# net weight addition or the couple thousand (?) extra bucks it costs to get a 140. Now, I'm just playing devils advocate here because if the 4-stroke is still quieter, less smoky, and gets better fuel mileage at lower RPM's, it could still very well be the motor I would choose if I were to repower.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I agree with Dimitri, the more I hear about how macs perform with different size motors the more I feel the 90 hp is THE right size for this boat. Plenty of speed when you need it yet lower weight, fuel consumption, and cost.