Picked the wrong day to put the mast up

[KingBubbaTruck]

So, we are trying to get our sail boat ready to run again. Used to keep it in a slip in California, but since we moved we've had so much to do around this place it just kind of fell into a bit of disrepair.

The last couple of weeks have been warm, but nice. Sometimes in the summer we get several days of super hot weather that kind of spawn 'monsoon' types of thunderstorms that do nothing but bring clouds, lightening, and fire. No moisture, so they just cause fires.

So nothing was in the forecast today and this morning I started doing some work on the boat. Decided I needed to get the mast up so I could get all the sheets, halyards, and lines off it to clean them up.

Then today it started to get cloudy in the afternoon and thunder starts rolling through the valley...

I went out there about an hour ago and I heard a weird 'tik tik tik tik' noise coming from the boat. There's nothing on that boat now. No batteries, nothing. We are cleaning it up.

The tik tik noise varied from 1 per second to sounding like a 120 beat on a metronome... Best as I can figure the static electricity was building up in the rigging and somehow was finding a way to ground somewhere through the boat. I'm guessing the skeg on the motor, but I wasn't going to get close enough to find out what with the lightning and thunder out and about.

Seems like the little bit if moisture we just got tempered it down.

I think tomorrow I'll pound a metal stake in the ground and hook some old jumper cables up to it to ground it until I take the mast down...

[NiceAft]

I seem to recall that the question of jumper cables being able to safeguard a boat on the water in a lightinig storm, as being discussed here at length. I don't think that theory was ever proved. You may wish to do a search on the subject. I'm thinking that it won't make a difference if you are struck while on land or water.

Here is a sample of what I got when I searched "jumper cables". You will notice that you are now at the top of the list.

Ray

Picked the wrong day to put the mast up
... think tomorrow I'll pound a metal stake in the ground and hook some old jumper cables up to it to ground it until I take the mast down... http://familywoodworking.org/forums/att ... 1282430670 by KingBubbaTruck
Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:59 pm

Forum: MacGregor Powersailor Discussion
Topic: Picked the wrong day to put the mast up
Replies: 0
Views: 3 Jump to post
Re: Lightning
Just to make one thing clear. If I do install a grounding system it WON'T BE JUMPER CABLES ATTACHED TO A METAL PLATE. It would be in accordance with the following....

http://www.kp44.org/LightningProtection ... ndards.php

I'll leave the jumper cables in the Suburban,

Sumby Sumner
Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:45 pm

Forum: MacGregor/Venture Discussion
Topic: Lightning
Replies: 71
Views: 1174 Jump to post
Re: Lightning
... have a false sense of security. The same false security of believing jumper cables over the side will work. A few years ago I was motoring back from the northern most ...by NiceAft
Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:59 pm

Forum: MacGregor/Venture Discussion
Topic: Lightning
Replies: 71
Views: 1174 Jump to post
Re: Lightning
... on about poorly grounding. Hanging an inadequate ground over the side (jumper cables) will provide a path that will result in molten jumper cables melting a hole in the ...by RussMT
Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:06 pm

Forum: MacGregor/Venture Discussion
Topic: Lightning
Replies: 71
Views: 1174 Jump to post
Re: Lightning
I've heard of people who attach one end of jumper cables to their shrouds and throw the other end overboard.by mgmathews
Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:33 pm

Forum: MacGregor/Venture Discussion
Topic: Lightning
Replies: 71
Views: 1174 Jump to post
Re: Laptop computers
I have an 800amp booster jump pack it will charge from the batt. jumper cables I am sure but would have to check it also charges from the 110vlot inlet or 12vdc outlet ...by Highlander
Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:37 pm

Forum: Repairs and Modifications
Topic: Laptop computers
Replies: 27
Views: 627 Jump to post
Re: Laptop computers
Any idea is the battery pack can be charged by attaching the jumper cables to a house battery when the panels are working?

No this wont work. Almost all the modern jumper packs are diode protected. You probably do have a 12 VDC connector which can be used for charging though.by Kelly Hanson East
Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:45 pm

Forum: Repairs and Modifications
Topic: Laptop computers
Replies: 27
Views: 627 Jump to post
Re: Laptop computers
... we won't be freezing with it. I was thinking of carrying a 12v battery jumper pack,as a backup. Any idea is the battery pack can be charged by attaching the jumper cables to a house battery when the panels are working? Most packs come with a 110v charger,which ...by KayakDan
Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:18 pm

Forum: Repairs and Modifications
Topic: Laptop computers
Replies: 27
Views: 627 Jump to post
Re: Battery Drain problem
... to run the cooler, neg. to neg. pos. to pos. for 12 volts. Use battery cables connecting the two and not jumper cables. I use this system for my house deep cycle bateries and a starter battery for ...by DaveB
Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:50 pm

Forum: MacGregor Powersailor Discussion
Topic: Battery Drain problem
Replies: 13
Views: 312 Jump to post
Bow Towing-Eye Strength
... dead from trying to start the engine and so I went below to use the jumper cables for the emergency battery. It still would not start. (note to self: what I though was ...by Wind Chime
Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:34 pm

Forum: MacGregor Powersailor Discussion
Topic: Bow Towing-Eye Strength
Replies: 10
Views: 314 Jump to post
Re: Prelude to a lightning strike
... posts seem to be missing is gthe concept that the reason you put down jumper cables is not so they will take a whole lightning bold, but so that the chage will be disapated ...by Hamin' X
Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:51 pm

Forum: MacGregor Powersailor Discussion
Topic: Prelude to a lightning strike
Replies: 12
Views: 430 Jump to post
Re: Prelude to a lightning strike
... posts seem to be missing is gthe concept that the reason you put down jumper cables is not so they will take a whole lightning bold, but so that the chage will be disapated ...by blue angel
Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:07 pm

Forum: MacGregor Powersailor Discussion
Topic: Prelude to a lightning strike
Replies: 12
Views: 430

[Catigale]

To recap a long hashed thread - not - HaminX on this board grounded stuff professionally for a living and I would follow his advice

[pokerrick1]

What a job - - - professional grounder - - - grounding stuff for a living

Rick

[Phil M]

Then today it started to get cloudy in the afternoon and thunder starts rolling through the valley...

I went out there about an hour ago and I heard a weird 'tik tik tik tik' noise coming from the boat. There's nothing on that boat now. No batteries, nothing. We are cleaning it up.

The tik tik noise varied from 1 per second to sounding like a 120 beat on a metronome... Best as I can figure the static electricity was building up in the rigging and somehow was finding a way to ground somewhere through the boat.

I have had that happen to me, TWICE. Once on the lake, and once near the boat launch preparing to launch. A large thunderhead comes over top of the Macgregor, and the lifelines, steering wheel, stanchions, traveller, all become electrically charged, and will zap you with a dam good jolt if you touch them. I had small bolts of electricity making ticking sounds. It lasts for several minutes, then disappears after the thunderhead rolls by. Scared the hull out of me when I was on the lake.

Phil M

[KingBubbaTruck]

Interesting on the grounding issues. I do remember seeing discussions of whether or not you needed to do things like that in a marina.

Was just thinking since I live in the desert, I'd really rather not have sparks arcing from the boat to ground, which is pretty much just flammable cheatgrass at this point.

I'll admit it freaked me out enough that I didn't hang around to try and figure out where the 'tik tik' noise was coming from.

Well, at least it should be a nice cool day today and I should be able to get some bottom sanding done.

[Catigale]

I'll admit it freaked me out enough that I didn't hang around to try and figure out where the 'tik tik' noise was coming from.

I think that was a very wise course of action.

[Russ]

I had that happen last night. It was the wind blowing the halyard against the mast
Tik, tik, tik.

Probably why powerboaters hate to slip next to sailboats.

[second wind too]

I used to live on my power boat every summer at Three Mile Harbor, East Hampton and would often have to tie off some rag hangers halyards so I could get some sleep. I always tie off my halyards now as a matter of course. As for lightning and we do get our share in the Gulf of Thailand, especially this time of year. I try to avoid it and hope for the best. No jumper cables.

[Catigale]

Fwiw ....grounding in a marina is more aimed at stray shore power current than lightning, btw

[Laika 26X]

Speaking of Halyard slapping, I used bungees for YEARS to hold 'em outboard with the shrouds.
Made for nice towel drying lines, but got tired of walking into them at night!
Bought a pair of these Johnson "J" Hooks and installed them about a 1/3 of the way outbd on the spreaders. They work great and look professional. Plan to show them installed at the MOD section when I get around documenting all of the mods done this year.
C. Johnson P/N 40-528, Halyard 'J' Hook $27.50 pair
But for the thrifty, the bungees do work great!!

As for the lightining issue, the 2009 US Statistics are as follows: 34 killed, 253 injured
Source: http://www.struckbylightning.org/stats2009.cfm
Fairly small group compared to the rest of the population......

But I'm not sure about you folks, if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck..... so here is a little advice regarding Boating when Lightning is imminent or present on the Water:

Source: http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm
The vast majority of lightning injuries and deaths on boats occur on small boats with NO cabin. It is crucial to listen to the weather when you are boating. If thunderstorms are forecast, don't go out. If you are out on the water and skies are threatening, get back to land and find a safe building or safe vehicle.

Boats with cabins offer a safer, but not perfect, environment. Safety is increased further if the boat has a properly installed lightning protection system. If you are inside the cabin, stay away from metal and all electrical components. STAY OFF THE RADIO UNLESS IT IS AN EMERGENCY!

If you are caught in a thunderstorm on a small boat, drop anchor and get as low as possible. Large boats with cabins, especially those with lightning protection systems properly installed, or metal marine vessels are relatively safe. Remember to stay inside the cabin and away from any metal surfaces.

Keep that AM radio handy to listen to the ball game, it also makes a GREAT Lightining detector!

"Sub" Ed Tordahl
S/V LAIKA
USCG Auxiliary
Qualified Crew
Qualified Aids (Nav) Verifier
Qualified Public Education Instructor
NYS Qualified Safe Boating Instructor

[Russ]

Speaking of Halyard slapping, I used bungees for YEARS to hold 'em outboard with the shrouds.
Made for nice towel drying lines, but got tired of walking into them at night!
Bought a pair of these Johnson "J" Hooks and installed them about a 1/3 of the way outbd on the spreaders.

You guys with your fancy bungees and "J" Hooks. Eeeh, for years all I ever did was wrap the halyards around the shrouds. Simple, sweet, no tap tap tap.



Now what bugs me is the vibration singing of the topping lift when the wind blows hard. If I tighten up the main sheet it just changes the pitch.

--Russ

[Catigale]

If you play with the shrouds just right, you can play the Marseille...

[Phil M]

Boats with cabins offer a safer, but not perfect, environment.

I doubt they were referring to Macgregors where the cabin is mostly made of fiberglass?

As far as not going out when thunder storms are possible, that would cut out quite a few days where I live. Thunderheads do sneak up on you fast too, so it always seems to be a bit of gamble.

Phil M

[Hamin' X]

If you are caught in a thunderstorm on a small boat, drop anchor and get as low as possible. Large boats with cabins, especially those with lightning protection systems properly installed, or metal marine vessels are relatively safe. Remember to stay inside the cabin and away from any metal surfaces.

Key words here are "properly installed". Key words missing are "properly designed".

This thread reminds me that I had intended to continue the discussion in this thread, as there was much disinformation in it. I am in the middle of third cutting and don't have the time now for a protracted argument, but highly suggest that the links that others have posted be followed and read. Only then will you understand that most confirm what I wrote, or contradict what others have posted.

Short story long: A properly designed and properly installed grounding system is best. Untold story: You don't have enough money to have it done, nor the expertise and equipment to do it yourself. Any attempt at grounding, short of a competent and very expensive installation, will only make you a more attractive target.

More info after haying season and the Pendleton Round 100th year celebration.

~Rich