MacGregor 26X "Race", Jib vs Genoa

[vkmaynard]

Here is video I just posted from last weekend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_5Cb3flN60

The kids handled all the sailing on this trip. My son (driving) really wanted his friends to learn sailing on this trip. They learned fast.

We used our crispy new jib on purpose to test against Knot Shore with a standard Genoa setup. On Saturday with 15 MPH winds or less (higher gusts), Knot Shore out ran us. On Sunday with 20-25 MPH winds, Compromise pointed higher and was a little faster with a reefed main sail (less wind spilling and less heeling). Compromise also had more ballast on the windward side.

Great fun! Lots of America's Cup moments with close tacks. We are planning a first annual MacGregor's Cup challenge this October (hopefully) to be held in either the Oriental, NC area or Masonboro, NC (which ever gets the most participation). We would like to have a real sailing race then some drag races and/or slalom races. Suggestions welcomed.

Victor

[DaveB]

Nothing like a good working 105-110 jib beating to windward in 15 mph winds. That 150 furled 1/2 is way out of shape but if the main was reefed to second stage with full 150 genoa the race would be on.
The combo of haveing a new jib and running the sheet lines inboard with a reef main made all the diffrence.
It's just that simple, and stay on a heel of 10-15 degrees.(never to exceed 20 degrees unless in a Gust)
Over powering the boat just makes more heel, leeway and lose of speed.
Dave

Here is video I just posted from last weekend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_5Cb3flN60

The kids handled all the sailing on this trip. My son (driving) really wanted his friends to learn sailing on this trip. They learned fast.

We used our crispy new jib on purpose to test against Knot Shore with a standard Genoa setup. On Saturday with 15 MPH winds or less (higher gusts), Knot Shore out ran us. On Sunday with 20-25 MPH winds, Compromise pointed higher and was a little faster with a reefed main sail (less wind spilling and less heeling). Compromise also had more ballast on the windward side.

Great fun! Lots of America's Cup moments with close tacks. We are planning a first annual MacGregor's Cup challenge this October (hopefully) to be held in either the Oriental, NC area or Masonboro, NC (which ever gets the most participation). We would like to have a real sailing race then some drag races and/or slalom races. Suggestions welcomed.

Victor

[Hardcrab]

Looks like a great time, but I'm curious about the wind speeds you mention.
Where we sail, 20-25 mph winds will have white caps (starting about 12 knots/(14mph?)) on agitated water, but YMMV.

Do you recall the boat speeds?

[ROAD Soldier]

That what I like about Macgregors they are just like Jeeps in the Rocky Mountains. Everyone has got one but each is a little different. Come Pirate Sail we will see how my two headsails do in that line-up.

[vkmaynard]

Looks like a great time, but I'm curious about the wind speeds you mention.
Where we sail, 20-25 mph winds will have white caps (starting about 12 knots/(14mph?)) on agitated water, but YMMV.

Do you recall the boat speeds?

There were white caps in some areas but not all. The was Neuse river was flowing with the wind. There where more white caps on the day before with less wind blowing 180 deg to the current.

Our boat was hitting 5.8 MPH. We had 15 gal gas, 15 gal water, two batteries, 90 Hp motor, full boat (including AP testing gear) and four people. Knot Shore had an anemometer onboard.

Dave I agree, a full Genoa and reefed Main would have been closer. But the jib will still out point in these conditions. The Genoa tends to back draft the main more than the jib in high winds (even when reefed). With a full main we were easily heeling 25+ deg with lots of back draft on the main. Knot Shore hit heel angles of 35 deg.

Bring it Ron! We'll see you in one week.

Victor

[Hardcrab]

Thanks for the info.
Out here in So Cal, using the whitecaps on the Pacific as a wind speed indicator is mostly reliable.
Pretty good boat speed, I'd say.

[vkmaynard]

Agreed. White caps usually start at about 15 MPH. It takes more wind than that to create the 25 deg heel we had on a heavily weighted MacGregor with a reefed main.

Not a fast boat but still great fun.

We had a head wind both days both ways. Nice to have a motor to get back.

Victor

[DaveB]

I have sailed with other MacX that had the 150 genoa but winds were around 12mph gusting to 15 or more and they all went by me on winds 60degrees or more off bow (perfect winds for them). I only have a 105-110 jib and I always gets caught in beating to windward.The inner track will out perform the 150 in winds over 10mph beating to Windward as I can easy go thru tacks (best was 38 degrees of wind in apperant winds of 11-12 knots ) in 90 degrees or less and still make good headway with the 110 were the 150 would have to fall off 5 or more degrees because of the outboard sheet lines. I have never had inboard tracks for a Jib in all the boats I owned but the MacX is great for this.I need a new main and want two full battens at the top with 2 reef points. The CS2000 only has one top batten with two reef points. Reason is when reefed the mainsail will hold good shape so the Jib can flow thru the top.
I have also had pads built in the luff for head sail to retail shape when partial furled. I would not recommend this on a Mac.X as it is very fat on the furler and causes twice the windage.
I like to adjust sails to 10-15 degree of heel, that way gusts will be around 20-25 degree heel and boat sails best at 15 degrees.
Dave

Dave I agree, a full Genoa and reefed Main would have been closer. But the jib will still out point in these conditions. The Genoa tends to back draft the main more than the jib in high winds (even when reefed). With a full main we were easily heeling 25+ deg with lots of back draft on the main. Knot Shore hit heel angles of 35 deg.

Bring it Ron! We'll see you in one week.

Victor[/quote]

[Erik Hardtle]

Of course Victor shows only the ONE time they were ahead of me....

Here an excerpt from his own video...

[url]mms://208.180.34.252/knotshoretacking.wmv[/url]

Nuthin like throwin a tack right in front to get them movin... hehe... arraghhhh...

[DaveB]

Close Hauled they should have got rid of jib belly by useing winch handle.
They were backwinding the main.
Dave

Of course Victor shows only the ONE time they were ahead of me....

Here an excerpt from his own video...

[url]mms://208.180.34.252/knotshoretacking.wmv[/url]

Nuthin like throwin a tack right in front to get them movin... hehe... arraghhhh...

[ROAD Soldier]

Ok out of my own curiosity I made the statement "Come Pirate Sail we will see how my two headsails do in that line-up" now I made this statement not as a challenge but was just wondering how far ahead I will be in said situation out of a pure Redneck Scientific Observation bases otherwise known as an RSO. I didn't mean any harm or to ruffle any ones feathers but then

Bring it Ron! We'll see you in one week.

Victor

[/quote]
Now I have mixed emotions and I am torn between 3 different ways to respond to this highly insulting, delusional, and stupefying remark. I think I need a little help here forum on how to handle this situation. Which course of action from the following should I take in response to the offending remark in question:
Course A- Take pity on said offender and treat Victor like a little boy who got caught up in a moment of undue bra verity and say here you go little boy as I kindly hand him a complementary Redneck Bag of Hidden Identity otherwise known as a RBHI while passing him so he can hide his identity when picture is taken during the said educational and humbling experience.
Course B-My entire adult life has been spent in the Army standing up to challengers who would threaten truth and justice in the world. So with this in mind part of me says I should treat this offender like he was a Russian Soldier who is at or near my same age and should know better who just made the remark that if we had gone to war during the cold war we would have kicked the United States. -ss. This naturally would cause an immediate response in both words and action in saying and most importantly doing lets settle this thing right now once and for all. Which would be conducted in such a humiliating way that he would never even dare to look me in the eye ever again.
Course C-Drink my beer and pretend it didn't happen provided Vic apologizes to me publicly on Youtube. He then makes a copy of it and has it delivered to me by way of stripper dressed in a catholic nuns outfit with very well endowed PFDs. Otherwise known as a RTOR (Redneck Time of Remembrance).
Currently my train of thought with one of my manly heads is leaning towards option A over B while the other pointing directly at C. Ok forum what is your thoughts on what course to take?

[vkmaynard]

An HD YouTube video of me zooming 15x on your boat behind us will suffice

[markdartist]

Getting the kids into sailing is job one. Well done!

Of course, nothing beats racing and the saying that whenever two or more sailboats are on the water, it’s a race, is too true.

My experience is that in winds over 10 knots, the jib outperforms a semi-furled 150 Genoa; upwind, that is. The 150 is great if you know that tail winds of 10 to 20 knots are on for the day. Last summer, I headed home after a weekend near Bonneville dam on the Columbia river with east winds of 28 knots at the dock. Headed west, a bit of headsail was enough to hit 9 knots sailing for home. As the wind diminished, it was easy to let out more sail and enjoy the full downwind power of the jenny.

My Doyle sail inventory consists of standard jib, 150 Genoa and full batten main with two reef points. I also fly a Neil Pryde a-sail borrowed from a Tanzer 7.5. The a-sail is great fun in light air.

For upwind sailing (beating) in winds of 15-20 knots, the jib and reefed main keep my boat at 10-15 degrees heel. That much wind is a lot of fun and at the end of the day, sailing single handed, the workout leaves me with no guilt choosing dessert!

With all due respect, I’m a little skeptical that conditions were 20-25 knots wind when the ‘racing vid’ was shot. I’m thinking winds look around 15 knots, which is generally the point that separates the men from the boys. You should be proud of your crew. They look like competent sailing men to me. That said, the lack of white caps and hair streaming to leeward, an effect that I haven’t enjoyed in many years, indicates wind at less than 20 knots.

For an example of winds 20-30 knots in waters sheltered by the lee of Vancouver Island, see my youtube vid at the 4:00 minute mark. Follow here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxJZtLbNtJ4


At 5:03, I take a shot of the instruments and you can see that apparent wind is (only) 22 knots.

BTW skipper Frank, crewman Carl and, of course, me are current or former Mac owners.

[ROAD Soldier]

An HD YouTube video of me zooming 15x on your boat behind us will suffice

Ok maybe you miss understood my comments I was referring to a Sailing situation not a motoring one. Yes with your 90HP Suzuki against my 50HP Honda you would need 15X to zoom in behind you. Now if we are strictly sailing you and your entire crew entire against me, myself, and I plus Raymarine Auto-Pilot. You and your young crew better be Butt men Not PFD man like me because that is all you and your crew is going to see from me. You should of taken course C while you had the chance. So for here on out just remember these words ITS ON!

[Catigale]

Bring it on Gents. Remember Board Rules require everyone in videos have bags over their heads..