What's Wrong With Mac Rudders

[phil kelly]

I have a 2000 26x with oversize mahogany rudders which for some reason, unknown to me, the previous owner had fitted.
I notice some members of this forum have taken the stock rudders off their Mac's and fitted alternatives such as the 'Ida' ones which suggests there is something that the stock rudders are not doing which other rudders can overcome. What is it ? is there something wrong with Mac rudders and how should an 'ideal' rudder perform on a Mac.
As I'm comparatively new to sailing (4 seasons ) I'm not sure whether my rudders are good or not so good, they certainly seem to stall easily during a tack (they seem to stop the boat on a full lock) but will turn on a dime when gybing, any helpful information appreciated.
Phil. UK.

[madguy]

Hi There,

I have recently purchased a Mac X with stock rudders, it seems a lot of people change the stock units as they are or seem to be to small for the boat, i have noticed a great difference in the stearing on the X compared to my old S which would turn om a dime no matter what the conditions, now it seems i have to learn all over again to undestand the X steering.

I am now considering making some new oversize rudders out of marine ply and painting them not as a long term solution but just to try out different sizes etc to see whats best.

I was also considering altering the angle of the rudders so that they stick down in the water on an angle instead of dead verticle, i have seen this on a lot of sportier boats and it seems this gives much better stearing when heeling over as you always have a complete rudder pionting down into the water.

Cheers

Madguy

[NiceAft]

I don't wish to steer you wrong, but the Mac rudders are adequate. People who change them do so for better performance, but that does not mean the stock rudders are bad. Like everything else stock on the boat, they are jussssssst enough.

Ray

[pokerrick1]

However, on an at least, you need to have your centerboard down at least partially to have the best steering control at slow speeds while motoring ie., going into a slip my CB was ALWAYS down fully - - - THEN, I NEVER had ANY problems steering.

Rick

PS And, of course, the CB needs to be down when sailing or

[robbiebull]

Hello Phil,

like you I am quite new to sailing, 3 seasons with the Mac 26X, & in my experiance they stall when trying to tack, I have just removed my rudders & am going to add 1ft to the overall length, & put some on the breadth as well.

Am also going to try adding some lead to the keel, hopefully these two things should help with the performance, making it more bearable.

Rob

[Paul S]

Before changing anything..should check the rudder alignment. Our M were way out of whack. Adjusting them til they were parallel made a world of difference.

[K9Kampers]

I have nothing against the stock rudders, but I changed mine to IDA for performance reasons. I had modded the originals by adding a 15-30 degree variable cant as per the Rockland Ramp-Effect Theory. The net result was a quicker turn to port, but starboard turns suffered greatly.

[ronacarme]

Our 2001 X rudders work fine when
1. both are down when sailing and preferably when motoring, and
2. we remember that at full lock they will usually stall (as narrow foils will), so as to act as a brake and not a steering device (to avoid rudder stalling, try backing the wheel out of full lock by a 1/4 turn more or less)....
Also the boat does not steer well at under a mile per hour or so.
Also, the boat does not steer well when (like any good CB dinghy with narrow underwater foils) the CB has not been positioned to balance the salls being flown (e.g. we use 3/8 CB line out for main only and 7/8 CB line out for main and working jib, going to windward, and use a bit less CB line out broad reaching).
Our issue has not been with the stock rudders per se, but rather with learning to sail the X. I found the X to be more fussy to sail than our old D and a number of keelboats I have sailed, but the X has enuf redeeming values for me that I would not trade it
Would wider rudders be significantly more stall resistant? Dunno, but It is not worth it to me to buy special rudders to try to find out.
Ron

[NiceAft]

in my experiance they stall when trying to tack

My experience shows that you have to be doing at least 2MPH in order to successfully get through a tack. Less than that, you will not be successfull. You should also do it crisply. don't be lazy.

Ray

[jschrade]

On my 2010 26M, the only complaint that I have is that the rudders seem to lose grip and round up too easily. It requires that I correct with a good measure of helm to counter when it starts to go.

It is critical, when tacking at low speeds, that the rudder is not turned quickly and too far as it will become a brake. Learn to make a consistent and relatively slow turn of the wheel and you will find it comes around if you are moving at all (in a modest sea - waves are another problem!). The real kicker is that if you stall it out by turning the wheel too hard, even backwinding the genoa/jib will not save you and you will end up going backwards.


Jim

[David Mellon]

I agree, at very slow speed I always jibe. I have never had an issue with my rudders except when backing up past a hedge. Since that misshap I have tied my wheel when trailoring.

[puggsy]

Would it be possible, with modified supports, to have TWO sets...the standard ones for normal sailing and another set alongside, with separate control lines, that had shallow profile , even level with the hull bottom, but more area, extending further from the hull. these could be lowered and used for manouvring at slow speeds, such as when coming in to dock. the rudder area would always be in the water ...something along the lines of a surfcat rudder shape...not the HOBIE, but the fun type. Just a thought...

[restless]

shoal rudders.. been scratching my head sooo much on that one.
I think I'm going to cant my rudders out 10-20 deg and stick a 'thrustmaster' thing on my engine. I'm also going to reset the engine pivot point so that I get full steering lock, not the standard mess up which takes off 30 deg EACH SIDE!!!! Gonna be a bit of a pain, but its gotta be done.
I'm also thinking of having the engine control cables running straight into the boat (through the part of deck under helm seat where it drops down that level) rather than twisting to the side with all those orrid bends. Much neater n easier on the hand I reckon. Any cons?

[Dido]

1st Time out in the Norfolk Broads I found the rudders worked well at slow speeds and in shallow water at aprox 8 oclock position (assuming 6pm is fully down) 1/4 centre board down and as long as I turned the nose through the wind she seemed to handle well in the windy marina....I still have the under sail pleasure to come.

Regards the engine cable, mine run down the helm pedestal into the aft double across to starboard and out into engine bay, somewhat shortens the length of the double on that sdie, was thinking of routing them as Restless suggests, down the middle and out the back, do they need to be located on once side or the other ?

[restless]

I've just heard that the delux mac copy, the Imexus does exactly what I was talking about regarding straight control cable routing. I'll be doing this soon! Rather than get new shorter cables, I'll have a large easy lazy loop hanging under the cockpit sole going straight out through some custom sealing boots...I've found the best source of sealing boots/grommety things... go to a scrapyard and pull the mirror adjuster booties off any ford KA you find... cut the nipple off to size and just begin to wonder how you lived without them!
I'll post some pics when I do the final fix somewhen this week.