Sailing with keel up?

[Jersey16]

I've got a question. Can I sail with the swing keel up on my Mac 25?

I've been around boats all my life but I'm new to sailing. I understand about weight, ballast, righting moments and all of that. I also figure there's definately a limitation to the conditions I can do this. The reason I ask is that I have about a 45 min to 1 hour steam down river, with an average water depth of 3-5 feet before I get to an area of "smooth sailing" with an average depth of about 8-10 feet. If the winds are about right is it safe to sail with the keel up.

Thanks a lot,
Jersey16

[gyroplanes]

I not an expert, but I did sail a M25 for 10 yrs. You still have the same amount of "ballast", it's not as far down, so you lose some leverage effect on the righting moment. You lose all of the benefit of a keel (centerboard's) function of lessening leeway.

Practically speaking, more than once I forgot to lower the swing keel and went sailing. Under mild conditions, I never noticed the added leeway or loss of righting moment (remember... under mild conditions) I first noticed my omission in the boats handling. Losing the pivot point of the keel was more noticeable than anything else.

It's been few years. This is based on my recollection.

[trdprotruck]

I've done a lot of dinghy racing and we would always sail with the center board almost entirely up when going directly down wind. This will give you a speed advantage, but be mindful though that you will lose tracking ability and will not be able to turn very well. Also another thing to note is that it may become difficult to raise and lower the center board while moving unless you are going directly down wind.

In a bigger boat, I would recommend against it since you will not be able to turn quickly in an emergency.

-Randy

[mastreb]

It's simple: You can sail completely downwind with no keel, and the closer you are to the wind the more keel you need. You will not be able to tack across the wind without the keel down.

Matt

[Ixneigh]

Your boat is a larger version of my v222. Some points
Yes you can sail with the keel all the way up but in anything except down wind it won't sail very well.
It will probably not go about with the keel up or be very difficult. Needs at least on third down.
Even down wind it will be squirrly.
In open water while running down wind it's easy to forget how hard the wind is blowing until you turn so that the boat is sideways to the wind and you feel the full force. It could capsize you.

I only ever sailed the boat in very very shallow water and at slow speeds with it's keel all the way up.
Otherwise I allways left some of it down. My boat was not self righting unless the keel was all the way down and locked with the locking bolt. I sm sure your boat is similar.
Also when you hit the bottom with the keel up you will be solidly aground. If you leave some of it down and you hit you can raise it and move away from the shallows.

[DaveB]

Jersey,
Keep the centerboard down 1 ft. below the keel so you don't make leeway and also good to keep it down 1 ft. going down wind for tracking.
I do it all the time going over 3 ft. of water with my Mac.X and have a quick release cam on my rudders to auto kick up if I hit something like past weekend when I left anchorage in 5ft. of water and tide went down 2 ft.
I heard this clunk same time I turned on depth sounder going 5 knots and new it was the rudders kicking up.
No problems and no damage. Safty factor as my rudders are 8 inches below the bottom of outboard.
I drop the centerboard down once I reach the Gulf.
You will give up a little speed as the centerboard is designed to be fully down but very little. The daggerboard can be lifted without speed reduction but can't take a hard grounding.
Dave

I've got a question. Can I sail with the swing keel up on my Mac 25?

I've been around boats all my life but I'm new to sailing. I understand about weight, ballast, righting moments and all of that. I also figure there's definately a limitation to the conditions I can do this. The reason I ask is that I have about a 45 min to 1 hour steam down river, with an average water depth of 3-5 feet before I get to an area of "smooth sailing" with an average depth of about 8-10 feet. If the winds are about right is it safe to sail with the keel up.

Thanks a lot,
Jersey16

[Jersey16]

This is exactly why I joined this board. I appreciate all of your responses and thats what I was looking for. I think my leisurely jount down river with the keel 1 foot down (which was going to be my next question) will work fine.
I read this board for a year before I made my decision on a boat and purchased an 82 Mac 25. We couldn't be happier. I'm not sure that I would be as far along as I am without the help of the members of this board.
Thanks again everyone.

[Bob McLellan]

On the 25', with the swing keel all the way in the UP position' it still hangs down almost a foot. So there is always going to be forward force. However, the balance will be affected, moving the effort center toward the stern.

[thomasgoodmaniii]

one major thing to consider is the force of the keel returning to the down postion after being raised for a moment by a stump or other submerged object. it will raise then drop off whatever has raised it as abruptley as the obstruction passes which can leverage the falling force of 600lbs on your whinch cable and the front of the keel trunk. the only reason i know is the repair that i will have to make to the lockbolt hole in my boat from the prior owners practice of just leaving the lock bolt in behind the keel. KEEL GOES UP SLOW COMES DOWN BANG SNAPS CABLE HOLE IS TRUNK (bubble noise and so on) i was fortunate to only inherit a 2 inch 3/8 slot to glass over.

[thomasgoodmaniii]

one major thing to consider is the force of the keel returning to the down postion after being raised for a moment by a stump or other submerged object. it will raise then drop off whatever has raised it as abruptley as the obstruction passes which can leverage the falling force of 600lbs on your whinch cable and the front of the keel trunk. the only reason i know is the repair that i will have to make to the lockbolt hole in my boat from the prior owners practice of just leaving the lock bolt in behind the keel. KEEL GOES UP SLOW, COMES DOWN BANG SNAps CABLE, HOLE IN TRUNK (bubble noise and so on) i was fortunate to only inherit a 2 inch 3/8 slot to glass over.

[Jersey16]

Fortunately most of the bottom around my area, and yes I have experience, is pretty soft silt, mud. Just the same I may find a happy medium to where my rudder should give me fair warning.

We have a saying in the USCG, If you aint run aground, you aint been around...

[baldbaby2000]

On the Mac 25 the keel won't go up completely anyway so there will always be something exposed. It won't sail very close to the wind and even downwind there was no speed advantage to raising it. Try it and see how it works. If you start slipping sideways that's the reason.

[flynfol]

I don't like the rolling moment when the keel is up. I will motor, but not sail with it up.