Kid Safety on Macs

[joesonio]

Hello all,

Just purchased a new Mac, and want to make sure the boat is safe for my 3 and 6 year olds. Definitely getting some good PFD's, but would like some advice on some other things:

1. Anyone recommend tether for the kids when they are in the cockpit?
2. I'm definitely going with some netting around the boat...any tricks of the trade?
3. I saw a few neat gizmos at West Marine....does anyone think having a throw bag is a good idea?

I'm just paranoid about my kids getting hurt, although I really am excited about introducing them to boating. If you guys can think of anything else, please chime in.

[Freedom77]

Yeah, Recommend tether for kids. Netting good idea too. I have a patented inventions. It's a piece of plywood with a tennis show bolted to it. Ya put the little foot in it and all they can do is walk around in circles. Fair winds and full sails....

[Benmcgov]

Hahaha!! Thats awesome!

Tethering is good but, it is kinda scary(at least for me) to tether someone to a boat. The boat isn't that big and it shouldn't be to difficult to keep a watchful eye. We sail with a little one and its not to bad. Just remember if the boat is moving anyone under the age of 13 is required to wear a PFD( I am about 99% sure on this one). Congrats on the MAC!!! I hope you enjoy it as much as we do.

Cheers,
Ben

[joesonio]

Hey Ben,

Do you place netting around the boat?

[mastreb]

We have slightly older kids (7, 9, 11) and sail with them every time we go out. PFDs are a must FOR EVERYONE, but I would be extremely cautious about tethering kids to something in the cockpit as they're far more likely to get fouled up in something important as to fall overboard. If you think the kids need to be contained, there's a cabin and a hatch for that. If you've ever seen a dog chained to a tree you know what I'm talking about.

A good PFD will keep their head above water, and the admiral should be prepared to jump in the water after them presuming you'll remain on the helm. If she's a better man-overboard helmsman then you should go.

The number-one rule for a MOB safety is PRACTICE (from a non-moving boat). I can't reiterate how important this is. What we do is anchor in a quiet bay or the Marina (presuming it's clean) and then just toss the kids overboard (line attached) in their PFDs. This gives them confidence about the PFDs ability to keep them up which is critical to reducing panic. Then we go over board and practice a rescue swim back to the transom swim ladder. In our case the admiral takes the helm and I'm the rescue swimmer.

Our kids swim off the transom all the time, but we do that with a long line attached so that if they get caught in a current we can just haul them back aboard without getting wet. A bowline knot through the upper back PFD strap works well for this and will tow them back head up and out of the water.

The first thing you should do in a MOB situation is mark the location on your GPS or chartplotter using the MOB button. Loosing track of the swimmer is the #1 cause of death in MOB situations, and it takes as little as fifty feet of track to lose track of a person in any kind of seas. #2 is bring the boat around with a heave-too while you're dropping the motor and getting it going. Unless you're a really good sailor and confident in your ability to get anywhere you need to under sail, you'll be fastest if you get the motor down. BE AWARE OF THE PROP at all times!

DO NOT have your rescue swimmer jump off the boat more than 25 feet from the swimmer! If someone dashes off the boat and you've already tracked 100', it's going to take them minutes to get back to the swimmer. Current will complicate this picture dramatically. You'll arrive first but won't be able to leave the cockpit if you're the only two adults. I know it's heart-wrenching to stay in the boat until you're close to the swimmer but the boat moves a lot faster than a person in the water and you need to remain rational about this. Once the boat is close to the swimmer, the rescue swimmer can go over line-attached if possible and you should cut the motor and use the sails to stay on station to the degree possible.

I had a rescue swim situation from my brother's powerboat where my six-year-old niece decided to jump overboard to "rescue" a lost flip-flop. She just jumped right in the water no warning and went swimming for the flip-flop while my brother's engine was on the fritz (so no ability to move the boat, we were just bobbing--one reason why I don't like powerboats). I went in after her and caught up in no time, but the current was doing two knots away from the boat and by the time I got to her we'd been carried a good 100 yards from the boat in what I thought would be a simple dip in the water.

I'm six-five, 250 lbs., and 40 years old so pretty strong and having a reasonable amount of natural buoyancy, but I swam against that current with my niece in tow for 35 minutes to get back to the boat. Wore me out like I've never been worn in my life, and about 20 minutes into it, I was starting to panic that I'd wear out before I got back to the boat. I wasn't wearing a PFD (last time that'll happen) and she was. Of course my brother had no line aboard the boat because it's not a sailboat, so there was nothing anyone could do but watch me get exhausted. Taught me a lot about these situations (primarily that powerboats suck and power-boaters are never prepared for anything because they treat their boats like they're cars rather than live-saving equipment and the sea like it's a highway rather than a force of nature).

[Benmcgov]

Joesonio,

No netting. A friend of mine and member of this board Sea Wind has a couple young boys and he has netting on his lifelines. They look good and look like they do a great job keeping the kids in the boat.

I would like to piggyback on what mastreb said and that is practice MOB situations. My wife and I are new to our boat and have done a MOB several times already for practice.

Cheers,
Ben

[seahouse]

And I will piggyback on what both Ben and mastreb said, (by your physical description mastreb, you can handle us both ) and emphasize that your primary line of defence would be to make the kids feel comfortable in the water and ultimately become proficient swimmers, if they aren’t already.

Besides the obvious safety benefits it will make any type of boating more enjoyable for them in the future, is a great self-esteem and confidence builder, and I think it’s an essential life skill that can more easily be acquired at a young age.

-Brian.

[LisaBham]

I would also advise against tethering to the boat while under way. As others have said... it is too easy to get tangled in one of the many lines on the boat or even to have the tether wrap around their neck or their sibling's neck. Best to keep a quality, good fitting, PFD on when outside of the cabin, and have a rule that kids remain in the cockpit or inside the cabin when the boat is underway.

I also agree that it is important to practice man overboard drills (recovering a throw-able floatation cushion is good practice). Also, if you are going to use a rescue swimmer as part of your rescue plan, that individual should wear a PFD as well. last thing you would want to have to do is rescue the rescue swimmer if they get into trouble.

Cruising in the PNW, Hypothermia is a real concern, how are you going to re-board the boat? This should also be practiced in non-emergency situations to make sure that it is possible. You should also have a plan to warm up (dry clothes, cabin heater, blankets).

[bscott]

MOB, start engine, deploy a "Life Sling" and circle around the person giving them a floatation device and something attached to the boat instilling confidence that they will be rescued. furl jib and drop the main as you are turning Or go to a hove to as you approach the victim on windward side. This requires quick action and only works if you have all lines led to cockpit and you don't panic. If there's another crew , have them keep pointing to the victim and direct you to the victim.

Everyone wears a PFD--no exceptions

BS

[mastreb]

For your own PFD (and the admiral), spend some money and get the automatic inflatable. These things use a "pill" of what amounts to alkaseltzer that holds a spring-loading hammer open against a CO2 cartridge. In contact with water, the alka-seltzer (calcium carbonate) dissolves immediately, releasing the hammer and inflating the PFD.

IMHO these PFDs are necessary to "actually wearing them" when you're crew on a boat. They are small, out of the way on your chest, and you forget you're wearing them. They don't intrude in your line handling or helm work. They aren't the constant hassle that a foam, or kapok ("Mae West") PFD is, and so they don't have the built-in disincentive to wearing them that these other PFDs have. You forget about them the same way you forget about your sunglasses and hat.

When you buy one, also buy the refill kit (it's another $12). On your first practice MOB, jump in with the thing on and let it blow like it's supposed to. You'll learn to trust it, how they blow, how to dry them out, repack, and re-fill them. All necessary skills and part of the practice.

Warning: The Alkaseltzer will pop randomly if you don't use them every year anyway from natural disintegration due to humidity. So you might as well pop them in your annual MOB drill that you hold annually. Every year. Start of the season. At a minimum.

[Divecoz]

MOB is at best, a tough one / a bad situation.. I guess practice would help..??? Are the situations all the same?? Does anyone ever practice this in Big Seas?
The .. No Fly / No Leap zone? 100 feet? I guess thats a good number.. how far, by sight, is a 100 feet.. ( when your panicked) .. If its your kid or grand-kid theres some panic in your guts .... dont Fool or BS yourself..
100 feet can be..a long ways to swim , and if your swimming like a madman...( and you may well be) then what are you going to do? How tired are you? Have you ever tried to swim 100 feet... in a PFD, let alone in 2 to 4 foot waves? Hummm ??
On the other end.... How long does it take to drop the sail, lower the motor, start the motor and turn the boat around ..?
If you choose to Throw a float I sure hope you've over shot them... as soon as you begin to turn the boat, that float will begin to follow you.. ( thinking about a ski rope and a down skier here..) Swimming any distance in a Typical Hard PFD.. is a chore at best.. Hopefully your victim has a PFD on. At least then your really doing a recovery.. NOT a Rescue.. If its is a rescue??? Have you been trained at Rescue? Rescue isn't as easy as it looks.. no doubt easier for a small child .. as Dive Instructors we never practiced on kids.. I developed my own style of rescue and proved to my Master Scuba Diver Instructor that it worked better and faster ( for me)than the "approved method" One of the approved methods is, to swim under and get behind the victim.... If its a kid? You should be able to physically Over Come Them.. If its a panicked Teenager or an Adult??? Hummm... I have practiced this a lot and done it for real twice.. Its No Cake Walk!!!.. You better be physically strong... In Shape ( Round is not a shape) and... a Strong Swimmer... I was used often as The Victim... I am not a big guy ( 6 ft. 200 lbs) I sink like a rock as soon as I exhale so much as half of my air.. try to pull someone back to the surface that is just 2 or 3 feet down and still flailing..Pretty tough...

[Catigale]

Does anyone ever practice this in Big Seas?

99% of us don't ever see Big Seas in these boats, so Im guessing not.

Im getting old and crusty - frankly, anyone who chooses not to wear a PFD at all times when boating, I am not interested in discussing safety with you...you have already loaded 3 cylinders of the Roulette gun...

Nurse...I need my feet lifted now please....

[Divecoz]

I agree Cat... I wear one, the wife wears one, all passengers wear one or .. have it close by and ready to grab.. That's really never been an issue yet. Everyone so far has complied and most.. insist on one to wear.. I have .. inflatables both self and manual and hard packs../ Ski Vest.. They're slim and comfortable and relatively cheap.. we have never had more than 5 aboard and we have 9 PFDs aboard.. Ive been teased a few times about wearing my ski vest.. I reply.. Have You Ever Seen Me Sail?? We all laugh..... and the conversation moves on.. Yep PFDs are a good thing.. During my 5 week Florida adventure? I had on a vest unless my anchor was set.. Its hard to perform a MOB retrieval By.. Your... Self.

[kevinnem]

I used to do swift water rescue stuff on rivers.


The throw bag is probly the best tool to have with you (not withstanding a pdf). Practive tossing it on land, and then pratice hitting "moving targets" on the water. very importand is you DONT toss it so that the bag lands at the person. you toss it so that the bag goes right over their head, and the rope lands on them.

When they get the rope, they should rol on to there backs, hold the rope, with it going over their sholder.

Although not likely much of an issue on open water, in a river a person on one of these lines can create a LOT of pull. I mention this only because, you really need to stop the boat, or at least reduce to slow speed, while pulling someone in, as the water force on them wiill be tremendous.

now, IF you miss with the bag, . you start to pull it back in , gathering the "tail " as you do this. then you can toss the "tail" end , in a second attempt to reach them. (this would be about 5-6 seconds from your first failed toss). you don't need to wait unitll you have ALL the line in to toss, unless you need the range. IF this misses as well, you now have the bag end with you - and you can fill it will water, for more weight, and toss it.

I like this tool because, it si so cheap, easy, and effective. When doing rescue work I would carry onje with me, at my side and it was used more then anything else. I would sugest you keep one in the cockpit.

[Tomfoolery]

. . . I wear one, the wife wears one, all passengers wear one or .. have it close by and ready to grab..

This part is important. Someone I know through my FIL capsized his large keelboat in heavy weather, and actully couldn't get his PFD's out of the cabin because they were bundled together, and had floated up to the hull (or cockpit sole - not sure, as I wasn't there). If you've ever tried to move a bag of 4 PFDs trapped between the water and some solid surface, you know how impossible that is. He and his passengers made it through OK, and the boat was recovered and restored, but it could have been a lot worse. Point being, of course, that a bunch of PFDs in a neat and tidy storage bag are worth exactly zip when you can't get them out to where they'll do some good.

I believe they also don't count towards the one-per-person requirement when the CG boards you and they're in a bag, but that's a technicality - they don't count when you can't get to them at all when you really need them, and the penalty is a lot worse than a fine.

Now, why they weren't all wearing them in a blow I couldn't say, but that's another issue all together.

Oh, and another vote for auto-inflatable horse collars. I wear mine all the time, mostly because it's so unobtrusive, and I often forget I even have it on. I also keep a horseshoe bouy on the stern rail, and it's unsnapped and ready to throw whenever I'm on the boat. First thing in the water after the passenger is that bouy, plus I keep two Type IV seat cushions at the ready, usually under my bum at the helm. I should probably investigate other systems, though.