Outboard size for Mac 26M

[davidbourne]

Am I right to say that some lakes don't allow carbed engines? My guess is that they are mostly in CA or Europe. But I wonder if they do allow Etecs?

Ixneigh, I realize that lakes are not what you are talking about. I look forward to reading of your "hinterland" adventures.

[aya16]

I really don't understand why someone would buy a mac M and then put a very low hp engine on it?? Its like buying a corvette and ordering a 4 cyl. engine for it. The reason for doing that would be because The corvette being bought will never use the power of the monster engine in that car. The mac is a high bred, motor sailer, almost all high bred anything isn't great at anything just good. Like sailing or powering.

If the reason to buy a mac M and place a 10hp engine on it is because its to expensive to buy the 50-60hp, or it burns to much gas, isn't a good reason to buy the boat. Trying to skimp on the engine, to save money doesn't make sense either, your going to pay a couple to a few thousand dollars for the 10-25hp, and the boat will only do half its potential, it will sail, it will not be able to fight heavy currents, it would take many hours to cover the same distance a 50-60 would in less than an hour.

Putting a less powerful engine on the M doesn't make the M a better sailer, there are better sailboats out there that can sail better and use a small aux. outboard, that have a keel.

People can buy and do what they want, but here's a couple reasons why it doesn't make sense:

getting together with a bunch of mac boats and they all go play and sail 25 miles from the launch point, your 10hp mac will take 5-6 hours to go where the other macs will get there in two hours or less. So by the time you get to the other boats, they already ate dinner, played all day, and are ready to return because the days over.

The mac M was designed for the guy who works all week and yet make a short weekend do able in semi far away places, although I sail mostly near my home port, I sometimes spend a weekend 35 miles away, you almost cant do that in two days with a smaller motor. Even sailing near my home port I will motor, at times 10 miles or so off shore to get away from the large sailing crowd, that sails the same water all the time, I can go farther out where the wind is kinder, more predictable, and still beat all the other boats back in who sail close to shore. I see more wild life, mostly have calmer waters, and the water is cleaner.

The M can go as slow as you want, even with the 115hp monster I have, I can go as slow as a 10hp Mac, but the 10hp mac cant even dream about going as fast as me.
a 60hp can stay with me all day long because our speed's stay around 20mph most of the time.

Sailing is wonderful, the mac sails well and can give that great feeling of wind power wonder we all get in a sail boat, but the difference with the mac and other sailboats is we don't have to sail the same water all the time, we can sail away from the crowd some days, or we can sail with the crowd when we want. The mac gives us choices, why would any one want to limit that choice?

Our boats sail different than a keel boat, we are just as safe, but our boats heel way faster, and feels uncomfortable at times for those that are not used to it, a keel boat will heel but its slow going over and not as nerve racking. A keel boat when heeled to far will dip its rudder out of the water and right itself some, a mac with twin rudders will keep on going over to a point where she just wont heel anymore, but you could dip your head in the water at that point. So maybe what some of you really want is a pure sailboat, like a keel boat, and not a mac. You buy a mac, and expect a pure sailboat feeling with a 10hp motor attached, it isnt going to happen, now you have a light sailboat that will react even faster with all the weight you don't have like the rest of us.

I would suggest to any one buying a mac and want to start with a small motor, get a 5hp or less, then when you realize later you want that 60hp, you can use the smaller motor for a dinghy later. That way you don't lose a thousand or so dollars trading the small motor in for the bigger one.

Just for discussion sake Tell me why anyone would want the mac and a small engine, cost, gas millage, shouldn't be a factor though, cause any boat is a hole where you just pour money into, no matter what you have. If you say you only sail on a lake that is 2 miles around, you got me there.....
Mike

[robbarnes1965]

With all due respect . . .

Not having a large enough outboard that will move the Mac at speeds much higher than the typical sailboat (that is not a power-sailor) defeats the major reason for owning a Mac (my humble opinion).
If speed under power is not your priority, you may be better off with a different boat that has much better sailing characteristics. If you do away with the thrill of speed under power, you must compensate with a thrill under sail. And the Mac cannot do that.

I believe you may one day regret putting a small engine on the Mac. Even if you do not speed often, there will be moments where you will just wish you had more power.

You may save money going for a bigger motor from start.

I am super happy with my Suzuki 1.950cc/100hp – lots of torque – you may also wish to check out this thread
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =9&t=17285
that gives a full analysis of my choice and a video of the ‘beast’ performing.

Enjoy and good luck with your final choice.

At the end of the day . . . it is about whatever does it for you. No comments there.

Octaman

Proves the point. Would I have been happier with a 100hp? Absolutely. It would have been worth the trade-off of no rear access for that power. I would also be happy to give up power for the space and convenience. For most of the sailing/cruising I have done however, a 9.9 would have done just fine. The Mac still would have outperformed other boats because I also sail in a relatively shallow area and the retractable dagger has me sailing where only the dinghies can go. In fact, by labor day weekend, the water levels at the club can be so low that the keel boats can't go out because they are stuck in mud. Space in the Mac is also a pleasure as mentioned by others. If power was all that mattered, I would have bought a power boat.

If I could go back, I am still on the fence as to whether I would get a bigger (70hp+) or smaller engine (910-15hp). But if you find yourself under-powered with a 50hp, the upgrade will cost you a lot - significant loss on the 50 and more on the bigger one. If you start with a 10-15, I agree with Catigale, you won't have lost much $ or you can use it on a dingy. If you are purchasing used you just take what's there and blame it on the seller

Personally, I think it would be brilliant and cheap to run 2 x 9.9hp beside the rudders where lower either the rudders or the engines. Redundancy plus a little extra push in a current. I've seen some posts where people have added a 9.9 but kept a center mounted one. I think it defeats the purpose. Imagine all that space getting in an out for a swim...

Rob

[robbarnes1965]

If I could go back, I am still on the fence as to whether I would get a bigger (70hp+) or smaller engine (910-15hp).
Rob[/quote]

Ooops! 10-15hp. 910hp, now that would be a real Mac engine!

Rob

[aya16]

About space at the transom, the 60 etec takes up about the same space as say a merc 25hp. Its dinky. and I don't recommend any 10hp or 25hp for a dinghy motor
Unless its mounted all the time. It gets old putting and taking off that motor, unless its an old 2 stroke. And if you have a 10hp with remote throttle, and electric start, its not going to be an easy swap. Now you have to have a battery and remote tank, as well as remote throttle and shifter, in the dinghy. So the dinghy needs to be 12 foot or bigger. Soooo we buy a mac, put a 10hp remote on it, and we tow a 12 foot dinghy???????

Most of the time I use a 6.5 foot dinghy with a 2 hp motor. I tried to lift my 115hp motor on the mac onto the dinghy but it would probably take two people
Mike

[NiceAft]

aya16 said,

but the difference with the mac and other sailboats is we don't have to sail the same water all the time, we can sail away from the crowd some days, or we can sail with the crowd when we want. The mac gives us choices, why would any one want to limit that choice?

You miss a big point, we can also trailer away from the crowd.

There are other trailerable boats out there, but to me, none that offer a boat as nice as my . I don't need the speed of a larger engine. My fifty is enough. It has been for seven seasons. The vast majority of the time, the six HP Merc on my dinghy could work fine on my . I understand why some owners are just fine with 6, 8, 10, or 15 HP on the stern.

I see nothing wrong with someone wanting a small engine on their boat. Not everyone wants to be Speed Racer. Some of us purchased the boat because we want to be able to sail in waters around the country.

I bought my first sailboat in 1979, and in all of those years, I have only once thought I needed a bigger HP engine on back of the boat. I realized later that I was wrong.

I tried to outrace a storm that snuck up on me from behind a mountain. I couldn't, and a 115 would not have made a difference. I ended up anchoring behind an island until the blow was over.

I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong about your choice of power source, but rather just trying to tell you to try harder at understanding why others want smaller.

I really don't understand why someone would buy a mac M and then put a very low hp engine on it??

Ray

[Catigale]

Its like buying a corvette and ordering a 4 cyl. engine for it.

A corvette that sleeps 7 for a week and can be trailered from upstate NY to Cape Cod with a 200 HP VW van.....????

There are many, many upsides to Mac ownership beyond power boating that make the engine choice from none to 140HP reasonable for the owner.

It will NOT pay, however, to buy a big engine to 'enhance' resell margin - the more you spend, the more you will lose on the engine.

Buy what YOU need, not what you think the next guy might want.

[aya16]

Buy what you need, but also buy what you may need or want later, Some of us hang onto things 2o years or so, needs change, wants change.
Believe me I have spent more money making up for my short sightedness, trying to make things fit my future when it comes.

Heck I probably spent enough on the mac to have gone ahead and bought that dream boat 45 foot hunter center cockpit I have had dreams about for many years....

[NiceAft]

Heck I probably spent enough on the mac to have gone ahead and bought that dream boat 45 foot hunter center cockpit I have had dreams about for many years....

We all have wet dreams

Ray

[Ixneigh]

I got this boat for two reasons. Room and beachability. I stay on the boat most nights. I've sailed on small yachts nearly my whole life. This is my fifth so far. The M may be lightly made but but it's more able then any of them under way. It's dry and comfortable when it's windy, though no speed demon. It has enough room to stay aboard for months on end with two pets. In comfort, not as a stunt. I lived on my v22.2 for a year and a half btw. The rig is high tech but simple and easy to maintain. It looks good floating on the water. It has tons of storage. Parts and sails are easily available from a well established support network. Plus it's fairly cheap to buy either new or used.
Price an rk26 or presto 30 for comparison. And in the end it really does sail fine. There are plenty of reasons besides motoring fast to have this boat. Its just what you want to do with it. If you want to hang with the boys then have a large motor. If you only ever sail on Lake Fabulous, then just have a kicker. So far I like the etec but seldom seem to be using all that power in my real world conditions. I either motor in slow non pounding comfort or sail. When the dogs start to slide off the seats I reef. Then I find someplace shallow calm to anchor.

Ixneigh.

[Divecoz]

Aya16""Its like buying a corvette and ordering a 4 cyl. """
Hardly..My Friend... But a lot more like when the 10's of THOUSANDS... of people bought The Plastic Pig Corvettes with their anemic 350 V-8's and It was ?? What they were : ) ...and ....they sold as I said .....Thousands upon Thousands of them to happy customers All Over The World.. A friend of mine bought one in Thailand ...an "89" ... when he moved / retired there a few years ago..

[Hardcrab]

Of course, there just might be some Corvette "happy customers" that would'nt say SH*T if they had a mouth full of it.

Just going along with the flow, so to speak.

[aya16]

Once knew a guy bought a nice corvette and yanked the motor out, and put in a pinto motor, Did it cause he was tired of having his comb over blown back....
(Joke)

I'm sure there's cases where a kicker motor is all one needs on the mac, but here in the big city we go far, and waiting 7 hours to get moored and have that first buffalo milk don't cut it. I have sailed 7 hours straight, 3and a half out 3 and a half back, But its nice to be able to accommodate the crew when your 3 and half hours sailing back and someone gets sea sick, or the little woman says shes cold and wants to get in, I don't have to say we will be back in 3 and a half hours. Vooorooom
were back in 30 minutes. Its choices that's all, those that go small, delete one of the choices of the mac.

Just like those that would buy a vet just for the looks, if you want a vet you want the performance that goes with it, even if you are stuck doing 65 mph most of the time. Or the truck that can only tow 5000 pounds, because we didn't get a tow package, and bought the smallest engine available. Hey good example, My younger days, my brother in law had this nice ram pickup truck, he bought a 22 foot travel trailer, worked great till we went out in the desert for the first time together. Dirt road bit of a grade, and that ram couldn't make it up the grade.

put my tow strap on his bumper pulled him his truck and trailer up the grade, he was so "nooo way" I told him to just put it in neutral, and I pulled him over the top.
what did I use? my Toyota 4x4 with 4.10 gears and 4 cyl. engine, shifted into low range. True story....He bought that truck cause it was pretty, but in the long run it was sad, didn't have the engine, the right gears, or limited slip for any kind of towing. Something like 0-60 on the highway in like 3.4 minutes

Ixneigh, the mac has all you said and then some, but with out the power its only half a mac,
Im telling you guys look at that 60 etec, that motor is so small you can almost put it in your pocket, but packs a mighty punch.....Even if you only use that power once, its worth it. You can be going 6mph towards the dock, at the last second smack that throttle in reverse and stop on a dime, cant do that with a 10hp. Actually I think my starter motor is 10hp for my engine.....
Mike