Interesting new outboard for dinghy

[Russ]

I'd be seriously interested in converting a Suzuki 2.5hp to propane...

Please explain your reasons. I have a 2.5 Suzuki that works just fine for us. It runs a LONG time on a tank of gas. If I run out of fuel, I draw some from the boat's tanks. The thing starts right up everytime and pushed our dink just fine. In fact, my son "pushed" our Mac at a reasonable speed with no wind. That 2.5 Suzi is light and works really well.

[Crikey]

If I was even to consider doing that on my, as yet unwetted S2.5 I would like to run on a tank of hydrogen, compressed and generated by the power from an on-board solar cell. That way I could run my barbie too.
The best of both worlds, similar to what was done to very many vehicles in the 70s and 80s, would be to run on both gasoline and propane. At least with the hydrogen, if it didn't detonate, would gradually rise out of the enclosed cabin!

[seahouse]

I like that propane outboard.

I'm a big fan of both propane and NGV. Propane burns cleaner than gasoline on such engines, so on a 4-stroke the crankcase oil does not get contaminated as quickly with the by-products of combustion. And wear on engine internals is reduced - they last longer.

It's anecdotal, but I have a propane forklift (4 cyl, 4-stroke) that gets run 5 to 15 minutes once or twice a week
(a fairly harsh usage pattern by manufacturers' standards), and I have changed the crankcase oil four times in 16 years! And the oil each time was clean (no clouding), clear (doesn't seem to blacken as much), slippery between the fingers, and practically odourless. I was probably wasting oil by changing it, but could not bring myself to leave it in there for more than 5 years!

-B.

[seahouse]

Hey Crikey!
Nice idea. And you could collect the by-product oxygen at the same time and use it with the H2 for more boom-boom too!
- B

[mastreb]

I'd be seriously interested in converting a Suzuki 2.5hp to propane...

Please explain your reasons.

Propane is much easier on engines than Gasoline+ethanol. They'll run longer and more reliably, never need a carb cleaning (i.e., never fail to start even after long-term storage) and because a case of 1 lb. bottles of propane are light, easy to safely store very long term, and simple.

But I wouldn't be able to do it without a pre-made kit, which doesn't exist.

[Catigale]

1 lb cans are not safe on board and most certainly cannot be refilled safely by most of us...thread rehash..

[Crikey]

Hey Crikey!
Nice idea. And you could collect the by-product oxygen at the same time and use it with the H2 for more boom-boom too!
- B

Actually Brian, I don't think it's even closely feasible with present technology (civilian). Probably 90% of us will eventually end up installing a propane barbecue on the cockpit rails - so that then makes three fuels to carry. Not a good situation. Liquid hydrogen storage; can't see it!
Still, keeping though eliminating gasoline as the primary big outboard fuel, with the main topside tank-age running a modified outboard, as this company is doing in its small version. I'd be curious how much would be required to come close to gasoline in a near equivalent range comparison. In a pinch, unhappily, I think I'm going to find obtaining liquid fuel's rather than gaseous - to be with us some time yet..
For the future, I'd put my money on batteries. And then, all bets are off.
Ross

[Russ]

1 lb cans are not safe on board and most certainly cannot be refilled safely by most of us

That's what I was thinking. I store those propane tanks outside the cockpit and in a marine environment worry about their cheap valves corroding. I've never felt comfortable with those 1lb canisters.

Knock on wood, my Suzi 2.5 has run great and is lightweight. Runs on the same fuel that I have plenty of onboard.
This outboard is cute, but without knowing much about the manufacturer and quality of design and/or construction, I would wait until more owners chime in on the quality issue.

[Sumner]

....This outboard is cute, but without knowing much about the manufacturer and quality of design and/or construction, I would wait until more owners chime in on the quality issue.

What I was thinking....Suzuki, Yamaha, Nissan, Tohatsu, Merc, Honda, etc. all have a track record. At $999 it is about the same cost as the 3 1/2 HP Tohatsu we bought and is only 3 lbs. lighter and doesn't come in a long shaft like what we wanted.

I'd have no real problem carrying the propane as we carry about 6 cylinders....



...now in tubes under the solar panels out in the cockpit. It might start more reliable in the long run, but will it last in the long run. Our Tohatsu so far starts right up every time. Just started it at home a couple weeks ago after it sat from last May.

Russ I wondered about the canisters also, but after having some out for 3 months in Florida, I can report that wasn't a problem. I do have a problem in that the thread/neck length is different on some and some do not screw onto our stove as well as others. The neck sticks further out past the threads if I remember right and it is hard to push them onto the stove fitting far enough for the threads to start catching. Once there it is ok, but the stove fitting is aluminum and I don't want to cross-thread it.

Sum

Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Gypsy Life]

....This outboard is cute, but without knowing much about the manufacturer and quality of design and/or construction, I would wait until more owners chime in on the quality issue.

What I was thinking....Suzuki, Yamaha, Nissan, Tohatsu, Merc, Honda, etc. all have a track record. At $999 it is about the same cost as the 3 1/2 HP Tohatsu we bought and is only 3 lbs. lighter and doesn't come in a long shaft like what we wanted.

I'd have no real problem carrying the propane as we carry about 6 cylinders....



...now in tubes under the solar panels out in the cockpit. It might start more reliable in the long run, but will it last in the long run. Our Tohatsu so far starts right up every time. Just started it at home a couple weeks ago after it sat from last May.




Russ I wondered about the canisters also, but after having some out for 3 months in Florida, I can report that wasn't a problem. I do have a problem in that the thread/neck length is different on some and some do not screw onto our stove as well as others. The neck sticks further out past the threads if I remember right and it is hard to push them onto the stove fitting far enough for the threads to start catching. Once there it is ok, but the stove fitting is aluminum and I don't want to cross-thread it.

Sum

Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Please explain the picture of the solar array ! We are building a similar array on the stern of our
I had Railmakers build the frame . We plan to mount two 80 watt Sharp cells on it .
If you have already done it I would appreciate any advice you can offer.

[mastreb]

Those Lehr propane outboards are now at West Marine. $999 for the 2.5hp and $1600 for the 5hp. The quoted run time is 20 hours on a 20 lb. BBQ propane bottle for the 2.5hp, so should do about one hour on a 1 lb. camp-stove bottle. It's compatible with both types of bottles.

So given that the 2.5 hp does 1 lb./hr of runtime, and the similar Tohatsu 2.5 hp gets 0.4gph (as per Tohatsu's website), the cost to run the Tohatsu is about $2/hr. at current San Diego marine fuel rates. A 20lb. bottle of tank-exchange propane in San Diego is currently $16, which puts the Lehr at $0.80/hr. to operate. I've seen tank refill as low as $12 for a 20 lb. bottle if you want to deal with going to an industrial propane reseller, which would put the cost at $0.60/hr.-- Less than 1/3rd the cost of gas.

That said, the 2.5hp Tohatsu is not getting great gas mileage. Comparing Tohatsu's published fuel economy of 0.5 gph for their 5 hp model to the 10 hours of run-time of the Lehr 5 hp gives a comparison better based on the actual differences between the fuels:

Tohatsu 5hp cost per hour: $2.25.
Lehr 5hp cost per hour: $1.60.

So at 5 hp where the Tohatsu is at an efficiency sweet spot, the cost of propane is 30% less. This is right where the cost (propane is half the price of gasoline) and value (but has only 70% as much energy per lb.) metrics should be.

Run time to break even based on price difference between the two motors:
Tohatsu 5hp: $1329
Lehr 5hp: $1629
Difference: $300

Hours of runtime to break even: 460

My dinghy won't do that many hours in my entire life. So considering no other factors, if the 5hp outboards come down to parity pricing with gas outboards, they're a value, otherwise they aren't.

The 2.5hp outboard is a value right out of the gate, in that it's only about $100 more than a similar 2.5hp gas outboard and it gets substantially better mileage than the published rates of the 2.5hp outboards I can find data on.

Matt

[Sumner]

... Please explain the picture of the solar array ! We are building a similar array on the stern of our
I had Railmakers build the frame . We plan to mount two 80 watt Sharp cells on it .
If you have already done it I would appreciate any advice you can offer.

All the info is here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-33.html

...let me know if I can answer any questions. I finished a 480 watt array for the Endeavour a few weeks back, but it is all apart and waiting to get installed on the boat. Hope it fits ,

Sum

Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[mastreb]

The West Marine in San Diego had the 5hp Lehr propane outboard on display. The top cowling has a slot for inserting the camp stove bottle. Looked like a reasonable little outboard, but heavy for 5hp. Felt like it was about 50 lbs. on my lift test.

[Catigale]

I've seen tank refill as low as $12 for a 20 lb. bottle if you want to deal with going to an industrial propane reseller, which would put the cost at $0.60/hr.-- Less than 1/3rd the cost of gas.

Until you blow up.....propane resellers sell "wet " propane which will corrode the inside of your cylinders until they fail...that's why there is a label in the US prohibiting transport after refilling..

The propane sold in consumer containers is specified to be much less moisture content for safety.

[Octaman]

If you are interested in new technology you may also want to take a look at the torqeedo electric outboard. Quite a breakthrough IMO.
Check it out: http://www.torqeedo.com

Happy Power Sailing.
Octaman