Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

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vizwhiz
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by vizwhiz »

:D :D :D zoneboy...don't we all have some of those regrets!

The calculations on that page are really not that hard - the whole thing is just figuring out how thick it is at any particular percentage of the chord (front-to-back width) of the rudder...meaning, at 1" back from the nose it should be XX thick, at 2" back from the nose it should be YY thick, at 3" back from the nose it is ZZ thick, etc. The "12" indicates that the thickest point is 12/100ths or 12% of the width (chord) of the airfoil - this is where the dimensions you'll get from the Idasailor site come in handy :wink: as the thickness is related to those dims... The formula is actually pretty straightforward, and there are a few places on the internet that supposedly offer a program or spreadsheet to calculate this for you... If you find one***, you could put in the dimensions you need (chord length, NACA design, etc.) and it will plot what that should look like on a piece of paper for you. You could cut that shape out of a piece of plywood or a 2x4 (make a hole shaped like the airfoil), split it nose-to-tail, and use it as a clamshell template for your rudder woodworking (slide it up and down the rudder to find the high spots and such). That and a straight edge to lay along the whole length of the rudder so you keep it straight from top to bottom...

Someone with good woodworking skills/experience might be able to offer significantly better options...but I've done this in the past for other contoured items that I wanted to make out of wood. Where's Ken...I hear he has the knack for woodworking... KEN??? :|

If you have a routing table and can figure how to make pass after pass that shapes the board according to a template you have (or make), that's awesome, but just to shape a piece of wood for what you're talking about? I would say you could get away with using a belt sander to do most of the work if you only have hand tools like that...that's all I have, and I have to make-do most of the time, so I get pretty creative...saw cut the big triangles off, then belt sander to shape. But again, I'll defer to the real wood-workers on the site... 8)

One piece of wood and coat it - sure it would work. Can't say it would live forever, but that's not your goal right now...and it might even look pretty since you'll be sanding across grains and such... But I wouldn't use the lightest wood possible (like pine) as you'll have trouble with it popping up (floating) behind the boat - you want something that will be pretty heavy when you're finished so it stays down even when the downhaul is loose (if yours is equipped with a downhaul, that is). Maybe pressure-treated? I don't know the right answer to this one...someone else can help here too... KEN!!!???? :P

***I looked for a good program...not many that are up-to-date, but found one that gave me a NACA 0012 set of dimensions I'll happily share. PM me.
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Steve K
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by Steve K »

Zoneboy,

Do you think you could do this? It is one of the easier methods and can be done with regular exterior plywood.

http://www.sailingsmall.com/PDF%20samples/Rudder.pdf

(let me know if the link works okay)

No need for tons of sanding and shaping. It shapes itself to a fairly good foil shape (likely as good or better than the original)

If the damage to the original rudder is not right on a stress point, Just fill it in for now. This is a perfect use for "Kitty Hair".
This is a Bondo product that contains chopped fiberglass strands for added strength. (sometimes called "Bondo Hair" also)
Should be able to get is at most auto parts stores (like Pep Boys)

Then, get a chunk of 2X10 lumber and cut a reasonable shape out of it and drill holes to match the old rudder, for mounting into your rudder head (it has a rudder head, right?). Keep it on the boat for a spare. It won't be perfect, but you'll be able to steer the boat with it. :wink:

Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"
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zoneboy
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by zoneboy »

Steve K wrote:Zoneboy,

Do you think you could do this? It is one of the easier methods and can be done with regular exterior plywood.

http://www.sailingsmall.com/PDF%20samples/Rudder.pdf

(let me know if the link works okay)

No need for tons of sanding and shaping. It shapes itself to a fairly good foil shape (likely as good or better than the original)

If the damage to the original rudder is not right on a stress point, Just fill it in for now. This is a perfect use for "Kitty Hair".
This is a Bondo product that contains chopped fiberglass strands for added strength. (sometimes called "Bondo Hair" also)
Should be able to get is at most auto parts stores (like Pep Boys)

Then, get a chunk of 2X10 lumber and cut a reasonable shape out of it and drill holes to match the old rudder, for mounting into your rudder head (it has a rudder head, right?). Keep it on the boat for a spare. It won't be perfect, but you'll be able to steer the boat with it. :wink:

Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"
So many choices, lol. I saw the PDF a while ago, while day dreaming about buying a macgregor 26c :D I heard so many things about rudders breaking off, I was curious how hard it would be to make one. I think once I get a few more tools, I'll make a couple of different rudders - one from solid wood using a chart that Vizwhiz gave me (thank you btw) and one of the one in the PDF.

I'll likely do the kitty hair repair for a short fix, as that seems like the only weak spot. Along with the suggestion of a cheap rudder if things go bad. Regardless, I have plenty of time to think about it.

Thanks to everyone :D
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Steve K
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by Steve K »

Zoneboy,

I was looking for another pdf file re: stitch and glue rudders when I ran into,
"Fix it and Sail", by Brian Gilbert.

It must have been a bootleg site, or something, 'cause it locked up everything, every time I tried to save a copy.
However, the book is for sale all over the net and although I didn't, it looks like you can download it for free on usenet, by signing up for a temp account.

While I had the pdf up, I read several parts of it and thought of you. It's all about buying and restoring old trailer sailboats. Brian even talks about all the older Macs (his was a Venture 21, I think) and infers that your boat is a rare find.
It looks like a great book for budget, trailer sailor, fixer uppers, like us :wink:

Anyway, I think it would be perfect reading material for a guy, such as yourself.
I plan to get my Admiral do download it to her kindle for me. She can get it for $10 that way. :wink:

Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"

P.S.
Old Three Sheets is looking pretty good. Gave her a good scrubbing then I went over her with Penetrol, followed with orange oil Pledge and a lite buff. Best results for the least work, I think. The shine doesn't last long, but she'll still look good when I get to Mead Friday and the oil puts some life back into the dry old gelcoat :)
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zoneboy
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by zoneboy »

I read a few excerpts from Amazon and it looked good. I'll have to pick up a copy, thanks for the suggestion. I looked around home depot for penetrol, but couldn't find any, I'll check out lowes later on this week. I checked out a few websites, and was impressed with the shine the stuff gives older boats.

Have fun on lake Mead :D
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Steve K
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by Steve K »

@ my Home Depot, for some reason, it was down in the equipment rental area. should've mentioned that.
SK
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zoneboy
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by zoneboy »

Just got the book Fix it Sail it, it is a good read so far. I also have some good news about the rudder, it is not as bad as I had thought it was. After digging a little bit more of the rotted wood out, I found that the portion that was rotten was actually just a small piece of wood. Under it, was another intact piece of wood in excellent condition. Filled up the hole with a bit of bondo hair, and all seems well. I also fixed the bow eye, and it seems as sturdy as can be.
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MacNCheese
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by MacNCheese »

zoneboy wrote: I really wish the prices of the 26c were as low as the 25 because then I wouldn't have to worry so much about .
If your willing to wait and keep watching CraigsList.org, you will eventually find a 26C at the same low prices as your 25. I bought a Florida 26D last year for $800
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dlandersson
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by dlandersson »

:wink: :o :| :P
MacNCheese wrote:
zoneboy wrote: I really wish the prices of the 26c were as low as the 25 because then I wouldn't have to worry so much about .
If your willing to wait and keep watching CraigsList.org, you will eventually find a 26C at the same low prices as your 25. I bought a Florida 26D last year for $800
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zoneboy
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by zoneboy »

MacNCheese wrote:
zoneboy wrote: I really wish the prices of the 26c were as low as the 25 because then I wouldn't have to worry so much about .
If your willing to wait and keep watching CraigsList.org, you will eventually find a 26C at the same low prices as your 25. I bought a Florida 26D last year for $800
Nice find :o I looked around for a while, and the lowest I ever saw was 3k and that was without the trailer. I ended up purchasing a venture of newport 23, for $600 and tbh was surprised how big 23ft was :D Still haven't taken her out though, I need to redo all of the rigging, redo all of the wood trim, fix tons of spider cracks in the gelcoat, reseal all of the deck fittings, replace the keel bolts, take out the keel itself, sandblast the keel and POR15 the sucker :) Then, I'm going to pressure wash all of the cracking paint from inside of the cabin, and paint the sucker inside as there are stains that just do not want to come out. Almost forgot, I also have to completely redo the electrical system. My boat has severe pox on the bottom, and I really want to just strip the gelcoat under the waterline, and epoxy the bottom. I could probably get away with just leaving the boat pox, but if the boat is just going to be sitting around while I do all of these repairs, I figure I might as well get that done. Plus on top of all of that, I need to purchase an outboard and a vehicle that will tow her safely back and fourth.

and then there is the trailer :( New wheels, got to replace the bunks, and god knows what else lol. And to do all of this, I am going to need to build a stable cradle which I haven't gotten around to yet. I figure in about a year or two, I will see the bay lol. Perhaps in the mean time, I may just buy a little sunfish to play around in :)
Gare Bear
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Re: Possibly buying a Mac 25 and looking for some advice

Post by Gare Bear »

I own a 1984 Mac 25. I've done various repairs and maintenance myself and feel that the boat was originally built very well. If you are handy with tools and know some fiberglass technique there is probably nothing that cannot be repaired or upgraded. If the boat is reasonably sound and the keel and swingbolts are in good shape, don't feel bad about buying the Mac 25 and putting some money into it. I really enjoy my Mac 25.
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