critical swing keel issue

[DaveC426913]

I'm lucky to have a friend with a barn that has an I-beam in rafters. I bought a hand winch and straps so I can paint the hull. Great way to check out the keel too.

N4ext time you're in the Toronto ON area with your Mac lemme know!

[kevinnem]

Okay so I crawled under the beast tonight, see what I could see. I took some bad video and some equally bad photos.

I am able with only a little bit of effort to move the swing keel in the trunk. It very clearly swings up and down about 1.5 inch before it hits the cross member on the trailer. This is a situation that I think you are all familiar with. when I do this there is much friction. I can get it to "stick" in the up position . most interestingly I figured out that if I push the board laterally from starboard to port in the center of the board, it will drop out right away!!! The conclusion I draw from this is that either the board or the trunk has developed a "banana" shape. I also did another test by probing down the sides with a butter knife. the area at the bottom of the keel, and the area around the pivot seem to be quite clear. However the knife WILL get jammed in centre 60% of the board. I am not sure if all of your boats have been built to such exact over-tolerance. The knife will get jammed so hard that I have to push it back and forth to pull it out!

However, I am no thinking that if I can determine the "bend" of he board, I could aggressively sand that area, and cause the board to shape in such a way as to solve this issue.

Ideas?

[kevinnem]

Below are links to the bad video. It is likely hard to watch , the camera will swing around alot, but I do try to cover as much as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLrk9ad3K28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFd0DahsWHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KItIpbdK ... r_embedded

Kev.

[mastreb]

I guess it depends also in what sort of waters you sail in.

Probably this is a big part of my bias--I'm sailing the ocean and deep bays. I doubt the boat has ever been in waters less than 7 feet deep.

[kevinnem]

okay so , I am going to "measure" it as best I can tonight, and pull it out.

I plan to aggressively sand it off - to the point of in fact making it slight less wide. I will likely chew right through the white coating (would this be gel coat?) and in to the fiberglass. When I am done I would need to re-paint it. What do you use for this?

Kev.

[Steve K]

Kev,

Your board looks somehow fat to me. I know the video is very close up, but I think the idea of it being swollen in the middle makes sense. I remember the centerboard on my X boat looked very skinny and there was plenty of room in the trunk.

I'm not sure about the X boat's centerboard, as I never did any repairs on one. But I have worked on a couple Mac rudders and daggerboard. They both had a wood core piece, running down the middle (like a hard wood 2X4 or 1x4).
I can see if the keel sat in water for years (like docked @ a marina) and in the down position. This wood could be soaked to the point that it has swollen considerably.
This may not normally happen, because the wood beam is factory sealed with resin/glass during construction. However, if the keel took a good blow, at some point, it can cause things to break loose inside, resulting in water being able to get to the wood.
I did notice some chips on the leading edge of your board, in the video.

The thing is........ we need to verify that the 26X center board had this wood stiffening piece, running down the center of it's interior.
Can anyone help answer this question?

The problem with sanding it, so it is narrow to fit the trunk without binding is..................
Much of the structure of the board is the outer shell itself. Start sanding through visible layers of the layup and you are weakening the overall structure. This, combined with a possibly soaked and mushy backbone (the possible wood piece I mentioned) could make the board too weak to withstand the forces that are placed on it during sailing.

Try this, as a test.................
1.Stand on the centerboard, while it is laying flat on a hard surface, right at that point where it is very clean. Put a little pressure on it, by lightly jumping and see if it feels squishy, under foot. If it does, there is something inside, holding a lot of water.
2. Drill a couple holes through the board (maybe around 3/8), right along the length of that white spot . First see if wet wood comes up in the drill shavings, or is it hollow all the way through. Do you see core material in there?
3. Put a couple bolts through the holes you drilled with large washers. Ad nuts and tighten. Are you able to squeeze the board thinner by tightening the bolts? And, does any water come out anywhere, like the drain holes?

If any of these conditions are the case, the board needs to be taken apart and re-built (which is involved, but doable), You would have to carefully cut the two halves apart, all the way around the board (along the leading and trailing edge and top and bottom).

I would call the factory and get the answer to the wood question, first, if no one here can answer that question (be sure and tell them the year, because construction methods may have changed through the years).

I don't know if they have them, but price a new one while on the phone too.

It looks like the centerboard comes loose, after just a little nudging. You may be able to use it for the rest of the season, as long as you are aware of the issue.

One thing you can do is............
When the boat is on the trailer, run a 1/4 rope up around the trailing edge of the centerboard, a foot or more from the bottom/back of the board (up in the trunk,there should be room in that area to get the rope up in there) . Then run both ends of this rope up into the cockpit (one port, one starboard) and tie the ends together. Now after the boat is launched, You can give this rope a pull to get the board out of the trunk and then gather the rope up at the stern.

Now you won't be stuck, wanting to sail with no board, at least
And Kev,............ keep the calm, I know it's frustrating sometimes with new experiences, but it's all going to work out
Hope I helped.

Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"

[Ixneigh]

If its got wetness issues maybe its time to make a new one out of fiberglass. Those boards aren't that big.
You could core it with plywood, but use enough glass so if the plywood rotted it wouldn't matter.
Good and easy, if a bit time consuming, winter project. plus the end result will be farrrrr superior to the old one.
Ixneigh

[kevinnem]

where would I get one from, if I wanted to?

Can you built one out of wood?

How getto-style can I go before I am being dumb?

Kev.

[RobertB]

How to start?

Remove your board, trace the outline and make patterns of both the overall shape and the cross sections

I would make the core of marine grade plywood - glue up if needed to get the right thickness (or could use solid wood)

Get a bronze bushing for the pivot hole.

Shape plywood core to right profile and foil shape (jigsaw, rasp, and sanders) leaving allowance for your fiberglass work, probably no more than 1/8 inch in any direction

Use epoxy (prefered but more expensive) or polyester resin and bias cut fiberglass cloth (the bias cut means you are shaping around tight turns at a 45 degree angle to the weave of the cloth). Do not worry about covering with a single piece such as covering a seat cushion with fabric - use pieces in any combination so you get good coverage and smmoth curves. Lay up several layers (especially around the pivot and the edges), sand to get out big imperfections (use a random orbit and hand sanding block), mix filler in with the resin and apply a fairing layer. Final sand and finish with gell coat or marine paint.

A good reference book is published by West Systems. Many other guides available also.

[DaveB]

You need to take the centerboard out of the Trunk by removeing the bolt inside cabin samson pole cover at bottom. If you have original rope to wire you will probably find a a grove in centerboard trunk well side that has worn thru gellcoat and maybe glass from the wire fitting attached to centerboard, this is what causes a groove.
Best solotion is repair that grove and change to a all high strength braid line like Amsteel or Sta-. A very small Eye splice to mount to centerboard is needed.
The centerboard has a built in groove but is not deep enough for wire attachment fitting ( but is for Braided line)Thats what causes the attachment to wear away the side of trunk causeing bind up.
You will also need to reglass/gelcoat the centerboard as it's in bad shape.
One other thing, a few X's have reported a split centerboard at the top. On mine it was split about 16 inches around the top head and I had to reglass it. Another reason to take the centerboard out.
See other posts mentioned in the archives.
Dave

Okay so I crawled under the beast tonight, see what I could see. I took some bad video and some equally bad photos.

I am able with only a little bit of effort to move the swing keel in the trunk. It very clearly swings up and down about 1.5 inch before it hits the cross member on the trailer. This is a situation that I think you are all familiar with. when I do this there is much friction. I can get it to "stick" in the up position . most interestingly I figured out that if I push the board laterally from starboard to port in the center of the board, it will drop out right away!!! The conclusion I draw from this is that either the board or the trunk has developed a "banana" shape. I also did another test by probing down the sides with a butter knife. the area at the bottom of the keel, and the area around the pivot seem to be quite clear. However the knife WILL get jammed in centre 60% of the board. I am not sure if all of your boats have been built to such exact over-tolerance. The knife will get jammed so hard that I have to push it back and forth to pull it out!

However, I am no thinking that if I can determine the "bend" of he board, I could aggressively sand that area, and cause the board to shape in such a way as to solve this issue.

Ideas?

[Hamin' X]

where would I get one from, if I wanted to?

Give Blue Water Yachts a call, as they carry the original Macgregor boards.

Phone call is best. Talk with Gail, she runs the parts department.

~Rich

[Steve K]

A solid wood board is going to float

SK

[Catigale]

Which means it weighs the same as a duck......

[March]

The centerboard has developed a banana-shape? That doesn't seem very likely to me. The core of the keel may well be plywood, but it's encased in fiberglass. Now granted, water HAS to get inside the board, or else the centerboard will float, as the man pointed out above. That water MIGHT have caused the wooden core to swell, but the fiberglass would keep it pretty much together. Have you noticed any cracks under the gunk that covers your centerboard? If not, I would rather assume that you have junk in the boot/trunk itself.

Before sanding the centerboard aggressively, rebuilding the board or buying a new one, I would clean it up until it looks white and smooth all over. I would make sure that the holes are free of debris and fill it with water in a barrel. If f the thing floats like a duck (a living duck, that is) then the problem is with the holes. If it sinks, you're good. Then it's time to get rid of all the junk in the boot--a high pressure water pump would help, but it will be mostly elbow-grease... and goggles.

Maybe some rags soaked in a mildly acidic solution and attached to wires/strings so you can easily pull them out from underneath. You don't want them to remain jammed inside the boot. Let them soak overnight and pull them out.

I know it sounds corny, but it would definitely be less work than whittling down the centerboard and re-glazing it. And if the problem is inside the boot, like I suspect it is, once you launch the boat and have her float, sooner or later, the junk is likely to come out on its own--and you'll find yourself with a thinner centerboard that bangs around instead of wedging itself safely in the boot, when you need it as a fulcrum point.

If you buy a new one and it still gets stuck, then the problem is definitely in the boot. I guess you could go that route, too, but is it really worth it?

[vizwhiz]

Which means it weighs the same as a duck......

A WITCH! BURN IT!


couldn't expect that one to be left alone, right???