Brakes not dis-engaging -- VERY hot!!!

[RobertB]

Jim,

Seems the thread has changed course to bearings - have you located the problem yet? My guess is that you have a bad solenoid (did you make sure no voltage to solenoid when going forward?) and the smell was toasted brakes, this is no guarantee you have damage to bearings (but may need new brake pads, even rotors if damage is evident). Hot brakes can heat up grease and grease seals, possible resulting in grease loss - this in turn can lead to bearing failure. But you only drove about 14 miles (if I read your post correctly), this is hardly enough time to melt wheel seals and cook off all the grease and then cause bearing damage.

My two cents on bearings and seals - inspect first, no need to needlessly change out parts. Bearing are real easy to inspect. Remove wheel (cotter pin and axle nut), remove bearing buddy (rubber mallet), pop out outer bearing (no tools for outer, will need to remove grease seal for inner), clean with paper towel. Inspect bearing rollers/balls for scoring or other obvious damage, are cages that hold the rollers/balls intact? If nothing obvious, they are OK. Bearing do not "hide" damage - they are real obvious. Check for lubrication on inner bearings. If no damage on outer bearings and inners are still lubricated and no grease is evident outside the hub, everything is OK. If no grease on bearing, recommend removing grease seal and performing same inspection as on outer, again, damage is obvious and if none, do not waste time and money to replace. Look at the bearing races on the inner surface of the hubs - any scoring? Best case is that a full inspection results in new grease seals. Word of caution, do not depend on bearing buddies to grease your bearings - get a tub of bearing grease, using the palm of your hand, force it into the bearing, and pack all open space inside hub wth grease while assembling.

Reassembly - most difficult part is to seat grease seal evenly. I use a large round piece of metal to start, and then an oversize socket (from a scocket wrench) to seat. Then, tighten the axle nut until no play, not further, reinstall nut keeper and cotter pin. Good to buy an extra grease seal in case the first try is "practice".

BTW, in my previous life I was an engineer specializing in landing gear, wheels, and brakes on the F-16. One other tidbit of advice from my mentor - you can never bleed brakes too often and only use DOT 4 fluid (today, use DOT 4 synthetic otherwise known as DOT4+).

[c130king]

Robert,

You nailed the issue. First is brakes. For some reason the brakes are holding hydraulic pressure keeping the brakes engaged. Why?

Hubs got hot...but I only went 7 miles (then stopped for 30 minutes) then went 7 miles back to marina. So how much damage did I do?????

I am going to try and get out there on Wedensday and figure out the brake issue and how to get the hydraulic pressure off. Load-Rite dealer told me I could remove the hydraulic line from the brakes and that should cause the brakes to disgengage. I will remove the wheel and try to see if I can get the brakes disengaged...never really even seen a brake before but I will see what I can see.

Yes, it got a little hot and some grease came out. Too hot??? Too much grease came out??? I will see if I can open up the hub like in those videos and see what I can see...never saw a bearing before other than in the videos. But I will see what I can see. I think I can install new grease like they did in the video...but I think I may have that cored spindle that Tkanzler mentioned so are those videos relevant to me????

Load-rite dealer is 20+ miles away and he says if I can't get the trailer there by tomorrow he can't get parts from Load-Rite before late next week...late next week is too late for me.

Just one more thing to worry about as I prepare to retire next Friday and drive 1000 miles on Saturday...with Konig in tow.

Cheers,
Jim

[RobertB]

Jim, to disengage the brakes, just crack open a hydraulic fitting using a flare nut wrench (pick up a cheap set at Harbour freight - do not know if you need standard or metric, HF is really cheap so can get both). Flare nut wrench grabs more of the nut thus less likely to damage delicate brass hardware. Only need to crack open a moment to relieve pressure (suggest even prying a single brake pad away from the disk about 1/20th of an inch (carefully, against the metal backing, not the lining or disk) to free up a bit more space in the system. Reset flare nut to minimize introducing air into the system. Removing a wheel makes access to fitting easier but I would just put a scrap piece of cardboard on the ground and scoot underneath. If you have a stock setup, the main brake line runs from the master cylinder up front to the right caliper. A second line runs from the right caliper to the left one (the second port on the left one is plugged). Please take care with these fittings - if they are like the ones I HAD - they have a small diameter brass swaged tube at the nut which is very delicate (I never saw such a awful fitting before in my life - it is totally wrong for brake lines with dynamic loading - moving with the suspension, brass has an awful fatigue life). This fitting is why I drove to the eastern shore with no brakes If you have a problem, West Marine has a good/traditional brake line kit. I can give you details on installing this too.

My guess is that you heated up the grease to liquid, some flowed out past the seal. The seal does not keep liquid in all that well. I bet that all you will need to do is take off the wheels and regrease - do not depend on bearing buddies, I did when I put the new axle on and burnt up a set of bearings and destroyed the hub too.

If you are just planning to take to a local shop? If so, relieve brakes and drive slow. If you plan on fixing yourself, do you have the stock aluminium trailer? If so, I can step you through disassembly of the tongue/master cylinder by memory, otherwise, need a picture of your setup. I would also examine the master cylinder when off. I also finally have figured out how to bleed brakes on a surge brake setup (need second person, some rope, and a 2x4). My suggestiion, if you are not comfortable with this repair, take it to a shop or get help (and I would change out those god forsaken stock brake lines).

[c130king]

Robert,

I have a Load-Rite Dual Axle Aluminum trailer. Not stock.

I will give it a go either Wed or Thur of this week and see what I can see. If I can't get it working good enough I will have Saturday to get more done if necessary.

Thanks,
Jim

[RobertB]

Jim,

If you are driving 1000 miles at the end of the week - how do you feel about driving without trailer brakes? Suggest you get the trailer to a shop ASAP - if parts are needed, may be a real challenge to get fixed in time.

Not sure how standard the solenoid is, but if ordering from UFP, could take way too long. Same with master cylinder. Do you know of any shops that work UFP setups and have parts on hand?

[Catigale]

....and the chuckle of the day.....

Never mix races.

I mean bearing races......

I mean, WHEEL bearing races...


(anyone want to guess the source?)

[RobertB]

....and the chuckle of the day.....

Never mix races.

I mean bearing races......

I mean, WHEEL bearing races...

Actually, the new trailers are very liberal in that regard, no difference between the races

[pmcco]

jim i just sent you a pm
Patrick

[kmclemore]

Whether the bearings need replacing or not, whenever you remove the hub, please do yourself a favor - replace the rear seal... the odds of it sealing properly when you reinstall that hub with the old seal in place are mediocre at best. Besides, the dang thing costs less than $5.00 and takes less than 10 minutes a side to replace... but if it fails it will cost you a heck of a lot more in both time and money. Play it safe. Trust me on this - I've been working on cars and trailers for over 45 years. Never bank on an old seal... it will fail at the worst possible time, guaranteed.

As to the bearings, again, if you don't know how old they are or when they were last changed, pull them and carefully inspect them. If you see *any* signs of scoring (scratches) on the rollers, discoloration (bluing) of the metal on the rollers or races, or delamination (flaking) of the surface of the rollers or races, replace *all* the bearings and clean out the hubs and install new grease. If you've got them off to do the brakes, this is the perfect time.

[Highlander]

well I just jacked -up my trl this morn so as I can rotate the trl tires on their rims as they are wearing out on the inside rib due to my heavily loaded boat jez my brk's are froze , so I will look @ them on Tues but I'm thinking its just rust on the rotors will up-date tomorrow

J

[c130king]

Kevin,

Copy all. My trailer is only 15 months old. Bought it brand new in June 2011. And I topped up the grease in April. So those bearings/races/seals are not very old or wore out...or at least I wouldn't think so.

If I get so far as to take the hub off and the bearings out I will go ahead and try to replace everything that I can.

Thanks,
Jim

[Crikey]

Question is, how hot did those (silicon seals) get before you noticed them?
Cheap insurance.

[Catigale]

With just two new seals you can take the hubs off, clean the bearings ( leave the races in place) and evaluate. Repack with new grease. Whole job about two hours.

I don't think your hydraulics are messed up, my guess is your calipers are frozen up...brakes overheat wheel which melts wheel grease.

When you inspect those bearings, look for discolouration...if you see this, they are dead.....

[Crikey]

But, two sets at the same time? My money's on the....

[RobertB]

I don't think your hydraulics are messed up, my guess is your calipers are frozen up...brakes overheat wheel which melts wheel grease.

Crack open a flare nut fitting - if fluid sprays out (just a bit), then problem is the master cylinder/solenoid. If not, then likely calipers.
When is the last time you used this trailer? Take wheels off and look at disks - are they heavily rusted (not just surface rust)? Calipers usually mount using two pins. Undo these and check to see if they are corroded. If so, clean and grease with disk brake silicon grease (the green stuff) or replace. With calipers off, use a large C-clamp and press piston back - does it move or is it frozen?
How about Wednesday, taking pictures of disk and caliper and post (and try relieving pressure) - better to advise then.