Bottoming Out on Drying Mooring

[Max]

Thanks Jeff,
Great picture1
Just that mine would be subjected to grounding on sand twice a day for 4 or 5 months.
(Harrier pilot eh? My son was going to join the RAF to fly, but is joining the Royal Engineers instead!...thought - why did the RAF get rid of its Harriers and leave our carriers with virtually no air cover???!!! The aircraft still stands up to this day don't you think? - sorry, not a sailing topic!!)
Max

[Jeff S]

Thanks Jeff,
Great picture1
Just that mine would be subjected to grounding on sand twice a day for 4 or 5 months.
(Harrier pilot eh? My son was going to join the RAF to fly, but is joining the Royal Engineers instead!...thought - why did the RAF get rid of its Harriers and leave our carriers with virtually no air cover???!!! The aircraft still stands up to this day don't you think? - sorry, not a sailing topic!!)
Max

Actually the Harrier program is alive in well in the RAF- the current model they are flying is the GR.7, they are looking at upgrading to the GR.8 which will give them the more powerful motors we fly here in the US (Rolls Royce Pegasus -408 motor vice the -406 motors- we worked all the kinks out here over the last 15 years of crashing them). The Royal Navy however is getting rid of the venerable Sea Harrier FA2. Those were good air defense assets with the Blue Vixen Radar and AMRAAM missiles. They were akin to the AV-8A's the US stopped flying over 20 years ago. The problem is that the GR.7 has no Radar and can't support a Radar missile. We fly a mix of Radar/Night Attack AV-8B Harrier II+ with the APG-65 Radar, and the AV-8B Harrier II Night Attack Harrier that does not have a Radar and is very similar to your GR.7. One of my best friends is in Cottesmere flying GR.7s with Squadron 4 on an Exchange tour with the RAF. I have flown with a number of RAF Harrier pilots in the US on exchange tours- every one of them a great man. I have also flown with Spanish and Italians who fly the Harrier II+ Radar jets from their carriers.

Actually I was stationed with Squadron 4 in Kuwait at the start of OIF 1 and fought with them- good guys. I got to meet some of your ground side during the mass rock drills before we crossed the Line of Departure in early '03. I was impressed by the professionalism of all the British soldiers- I would gladly fight beside them anytime, anywhere. Your son is joining what I consider to be a fine service for a fine country- (second only to mine )

On a side note I was in a bar (imagine that) once in Phoenix and a man with a British accent asked what I flew (must've been talking with my wingman about flying). I told him, and it turns out he flew for the Royal Navy a long time ago, he flew the Kestrel and P.1127 test versions of what became the Harrier and is the one who flew from London to New York in a Harrier setting the transatlantic time record. He performed a Vertical landing in a shipyard in New York to end the flight. Small world. (Obviously this record has long since been broken.)

Completely off topic, but in response to your note about current relevance- yes the airplane still does a great job to this day. The most recent Harriers in the US came off the Boeing production line only 1 1/2 years ago so we have many relatively new jets still. We have just put in the equivalent of a new computer operating system in our jets and the capabilities of the aircraft are continually expanding. US Harriers were the only aircraft to carry the world's premiere targeting pod (Litening II) in OIF 1. From that many other aircraft are adapting the pod to their aircraft- we became a favorite of the bigwigs. The Wing Commanding General in charge of all Marine aircraft in OIF called Harriers his "platform of choice" after the big push. We landed 2 jets on a highway in the middle of Iraq, deployed from captured Iraqi airfields (not many miles from the front- even Air Force C-130s wouldn't go in to these fields as they weren't secure enough yet for them. We had 16 Harriers on land (my squadron) and 60 on amphibious ships that couldn't fit ashore. No other fixed wing aircraft could have landed on these Amphibs- every sortie they generated was an extra sortie strictly due to their STOVL capabilities. The big deck carriers were full as were the land bases- no worries for us.


Jeff S

[Graham Carr]

I am from Colorado but I take my boat out to the San Juan Islands each summer. I have a mooring set up at Port Susan-Camano Island, WA. My boat stays on her mooring for a month at a time. The tide will go out depending on the time of the month for about four miles. The bottom is a firm mud/sand for about a 1/4 of a mile. At the mooring the tide height will reach up to 7 feet in depth. The down side to this location is I must keep an eye on the tides or I could find myself sitting 4 miles out. A couple of times I had to race the low tide. I have had no problems at all. I have never had any mud in the keel slot. The ballast vale is well out of the muck. I have no signs of damage to the bottom side. I have let her dry out with the tank full and empty. Between two seasons I have had her moored there for about 60 days. I am in the process of re-constructing my website but you are welcome to check out a couple of photos I have of her dried out. Just click on the return buttons if you would like to see more photos of the San Juans or the rest of the site.
www.grahamcarr.com/port_susan.htm
The main home page is www.grahamcarr.com

[Max]

Graham,
What a great web site you've built. Enjoyed looking at all the photos - and what great weather!! Rarely get that over here!
Are those windows port and starboard??
I was actually wondering if a full ballast tank would have a detrimental effect on the hull if you dried out on a slight hump?? ie unnecessary stress on hull? I hadn't thought of that...
Thanks for your thoughts!
Max

[Max]

Jeff,
Fascinating reading!! Would you mind if I sent you an email with further thoughts on the Harrier, as I started to go off the topic a bit!!
I do take my hat off to you for what you've done out there in Iraq
Regards
Max

[MarkStanton]

Nautimoments,

The map as posted look about right - I have taken my 26X on the Thames from Oxford to Richmond(London) before - it would have gone further up but I can out of time.

The canals are generally divided between Broad and narrow beam. No problem at all on the broad beam but we are a few inches too wide for the narrow ones. But with a creative route using the sea to bridge the gaps you should have some excellent cruising.

I know people who have been up and down the Kennet and Avon (Reading to Bristol)with no problems I plan to do more at some point but the locks can be tiring with just two of you. But if you are retired you can take at your own pace.

In fact this very weekend the UK Mac Owners association (I am a member) is having a Rally on the Thames - nine boats should launch at Windsor - give a wave to the queen and then cruise down to Henly-on-Thames via Maidenhead and Marlow.

I wouldn't plan on any of the "planned" renovations/extensions being there - I think some of these things have been "talked about" for quite some time

Feel free to PM me for more help but you will find loads already on the web.

RE Drying out - I intend to fill up with water and stay that way I think. Will get drained many weekends when I use her anyway as I will probably want to power up Southampton Water.

[Max]

Thanks, Mark...I'll do the same I think.
Max

[Graham Carr]

Hi Max. I am working on the road and lost my IP last night and my laptop will not connect. So I am borrowing another PC. The reason I am telling you this is I just checked my site and it appears that the return button is down. So you cannot page back to the other photos. The problem is my web stuff is on my laptop, so I am not able to fix this at the moment. So please check back in a few days to see the rest of the sailing photos. To answer your question about if you dried out on a slight hump I am not sure. I guess it would depend on how concentrated the hump was. On the trailer the boat sits (and bounces a bit when going down the road) on the long bunks. I would not dry out without knowing what the bottom is like. I walked the area were I set up my mooring.
Yes they are windows on the port and starboard. I also have s smaller black one mounted in the window of the head. I had my dealer install them. I chose the outside for two reasons; they would catch more wind and I was concerned about placing them in the foot well because of fumes from the gas tanks. The biggest problem with the location that I chose is you must remember to close them before sailing or you could take on water. I plan on relocating them and glassing over the holes.
I am from England and I like drying out at that location because it reminds me of my uncles boat at low tide. I have a long-range goal to ship my boat over someday to sail the waters my dad did and cross over to Europe. Maybe some day.
Graham Carr

[Max]

Thanks, Graham.
Will do...looking forward to seeing more of your pics. Hope you realise your dream to sail British waters!! (bring a very waterproof waterproof - and a hat - and gloves - !!
Max

[MarkStanton]

As a follow up to these posts I can happily report success - in my area at least.

I left the boat two weeks ago on it's drying pontoon mooring in the river Itchen and got back to it last night for the first time.

No problems at all. I tried the releasing the centerboard and it went down first time without even moving the boat. As we will be using the boat nearly every weekend from now on I hope not to have any centerboard problems at all this season.

Have left her moored in a "new" location for a couple of weeks I can't tell you how nervous I was of what I might find. Horrible visions of sunken Macs with masts fallen of were happily not a reality

I "re-evaluated" my mud - it's sort of muddy sandy silt rather than proper sticky clay type stuff - maybe that would be worse.

Oh and I left the ballast in and this has made the hull create a slight indentation in the mud where the boat sits nicely. Your obviously not going to get this on a swinging mooring.

Max - is yours on the mooring yet ? Did you get on OK

PS Any UK sailors who want to be in a cheap Solent mooring. I thoroughly recommend where I am. PM me for details. Not sure if they will still have space this season but you can try. No commercial connection - just a happy customer.

[Max]

Mark,
No not yet....she goes in On May 15th.....got to get the tide right as the slip dries out..only available an hour or so either side HW.
Also, was replacing the keel swing pin and happened to drop the 'U' keel hanger and spotted corrosion at the top - eaten about 1/2 way through. Thought it best to replace..50!!!!!
Roll on middle of May.
Will send you a PM re your mooring
Cheers
Max

[zuma hans]

FWIW, I've seen 26x's beached on the sand at Puerto Penasco, Son, where the tidal difference exceeds 20 feet. Most of the beach profile is as flat as a pancake and alternates between rock and coarse sand.

As long as the boat is anchored over sand, as the tide recedes, there is very little movement (no waves in the Sea of Cortez).

The anchors have to be reset to accomodate the incoming tide.

The slight jostling on the coarse sand, I would think, would remove the wax. But the coarse sand would just melt away rather than clog the CB.

So I would think the answer depends on the nature of the beach (how much wave movement) and the nature of the bottom.

[Max]

Thanks Zuma,
Good info!
Mine will go on a swinging mooring - double strops.
Max